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Old 04-23-2013, 06:41 PM
 
50 posts, read 27,938 times
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Looking at retirement trends and using social security as a trend indicator




As you can see while there has been a negligible increase in the number of non-farm employees - social security "contributions" have decreased sharply by almost $70 billion from its peak.

What exactly can we do to remedy this? At this point retirement of this generation is going to tax the entire economy.

I donīt think illegal immigration is the answer, but we need more economic input. More skilled workers is a definite way to do that.

Australia has decided to remedy this with immigration. They now have 25% foreign born population. They also did not have economic collapse and still enjoy a stable economy.

Right now it is very difficult even for the most educated foreigners to become residents. Many foreign students receive technical or medical degrees and are then forced to leave due to their visa type.

So the question is, how do we transition to this legal immigration mode that suits the economy with the needed high number of skilled workers?
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:44 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantHuman View Post
Looking at retirement trends and using social security as a trend indicator




As you can see while there has been a negligible increase in the number of non-farm employees - social security "contributions" have decreased sharply by almost $70 billion from its peak.

What exactly can we do to remedy this? At this point retirement of this generation is going to tax the entire economy.

I donīt think illegal immigration is the answer, but we need more economic input. More skilled workers is a definite way to do that.

Australia has decided to remedy this with immigration. They now have 25% foreign born population. They also did not have economic collapse and still enjoy a stable economy.

Right now it is very difficult even for the most educated foreigners to become residents. Many foreign students receive technical or medical degrees and are then forced to leave due to their visa type.

So the question is, how do we transition to this legal immigration mode that suits the economy with the needed high number of skilled workers?
Australia is real strict about who they let in. Word is illegal aliens there are rounded up and put in camps, NOT set free in Sydney and so on.

There are many people who want to come to the US and are def Ok with coming here legally and WON'T try to sneak in. We DON'T need illegal aliens for a thing.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:59 PM
 
50 posts, read 27,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Australia is real strict about who they let in. Word is illegal aliens there are rounded up and put in camps, NOT set free in Sydney and so on.

There are many people who want to come to the US and are def Ok with coming here legally and WON'T try to sneak in. We DON'T need illegal aliens for a thing.
Thatīs not what I was posting about.

they call their Illegals Boat people and wanderers, some are set free and given legal status, but that is besides the point.


We need more workers/ more economic output to meet the demand baby boomer retirement. The current legal system does not work.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:40 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantHuman View Post
Thatīs not what I was posting about.

they call their Illegals Boat people and wanderers, some are set free and given legal status, but that is besides the point.


We need more workers/ more economic output to meet the demand baby boomer retirement. The current legal system does not work.
Uh; with MANY Americans wanting to work but can't find jobs, there's NO reason to even have most immigration, especially of the illegal alien type. Sheesh!
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:53 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantHuman View Post
Thatīs not what I was posting about.

they call their Illegals Boat people and wanderers, some are set free and given legal status, but that is besides the point.


We need more workers/ more economic output to meet the demand baby boomer retirement. The current legal system does not work.
No, what we need is job creation and for illegals to go home. We currently have 23 million Americans out of work. I wouldn't call that a labor shortage.

If we keep increasing our population growth to support the baby boomers we are just perpetuating a new baby boomer generation in the future. At some point we need to stabilize our population growth not keep increasing it. It also puts less stress on our social infrastructures and our natural resources.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:37 PM
 
50 posts, read 27,938 times
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
No, what we need is job creation and for illegals to go home. We currently have 23 million Americans out of work. I wouldn't call that a labor shortage.

If we keep increasing our population growth to support the baby boomers we are just perpetuating a new baby boomer generation in the future. At some point we need to stabilize our population growth not keep increasing it. It also puts less stress on our social infrastructures and our natural resources.
Part of the reason why there are 23 million or so jobless is because the economy hasnīt grown to support it.

An aging population will lead to economic stagnation and decline if we were to chose that path. That is the price of the population stability. China would completely dominate the world economy, despite their own aging population (which isnīt as nearly costly) and our influence would be substantially diminished. That is fine for many people.

The real problem is that if effects quality of life. As the largest proportion of a government's expenditure is on health, social security are most used by old population. Also the increasing expenditure on pension becomes a problem too. Increased fees and taxes to sustain this will drastically reduce spending power and quality of life for many.

I donīt think many young people want to work just to support the retirement of a costly generation and their government that spent all their money on superficial causes. Youīd be hard pressed to find anyone under the age of 35 that thinks that should be a priority with their own employment and economic struggles.

The real question that needs to be asked is why isnīt anyone with a science of medical degree educated in this country immediately given a green card? Those 23 Million jobs arenīt going to be created without an influx of innovation.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:02 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantHuman View Post
Part of the reason why there are 23 million or so jobless is because the economy hasnīt grown to support it.

An aging population will lead to economic stagnation and decline if we were to chose that path. That is the price of the population stability. China would completely dominate the world economy, despite their own aging population (which isnīt as nearly costly) and our influence would be substantially diminished. That is fine for many people.

The real problem is that if effects quality of life. As the largest proportion of a government's expenditure is on health, social security are most used by old population. Also the increasing expenditure on pension becomes a problem too. Increased fees and taxes to sustain this will drastically reduce spending power and quality of life for many.

I donīt think many young people want to work just to support the retirement of a costly generation and their government that spent all their money on superficial causes. Youīd be hard pressed to find anyone under the age of 35 that thinks that should be a priority with their own employment and economic struggles.

The real question that needs to be asked is why isnīt anyone with a science of medical degree educated in this country immediately given a green card? Those 23 Million jobs arenīt going to be created without an influx of innovation.
Many of these 23 million were already employed until the large influx of illegal immigrants. Blue collared jobs such as construction, landscaping, etc. No one can convince me that if they were deported that millions of these unemployed wouldn't get their jobs backs.

We are pro-creating at replacement levels. Our population growth isn't stagnating. Americans know and have accepted the fact that part of their pay goes to SS to support the aging of that generation while generations in the future will also be supporting them in the same manner. In short, I see nothing wrong with that because when you become old you will get your share of the SS fund. No one is getting ripped off. There is nothing we can do about the large baby boomer generation we have now except to not perpetuate another one.

As far as skilled workers go I don't think we have a shortage of them either. We need to give more our own American citizens the opportunity to train for those jobs rather than importing foreigners to do them. We don't need more foreingners just more jobs and resources to support our own people.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:16 AM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 6,989,487 times
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One of the strong arguments being made by supporters of immigration reform is exactly this ... and they point-out how an influx of younger workers who will pay into the SS system for a long period of time will help to bolster the strength of the system.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:26 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
One of the strong arguments being made by supporters of immigration reform is exactly this ... and they point-out how an influx of younger workers who will pay into the SS system for a long period of time will help to bolster the strength of the system.
We have plenty of young American workers but we have a shortage of jobs. So I fail to see how allowing millions of illegal immigrants to remain here helps that situation or how importing more foreigners will alleviate the situation. We need to get pass this one baby boomer generation and stabilize our population growth not increase it so that we don't have many future baby boomer generations to support.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:14 AM
 
50 posts, read 27,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Many of these 23 million were already employed until the large influx of illegal immigrants. Blue collared jobs such as construction, landscaping, etc. No one can convince me that if they were deported that millions of these unemployed wouldn't get their jobs backs.
Many of them were employed via an unsustainable economic bubble stemming from housing. Sure, A lot of the jobs could get back but what you reference are largely industries heavily tied to economic gains. With little to no need for new housing, means not much need for construction. The jobs won't magically reappear without a reason to say the least

The reason why I bring up Australia is because many people have said they have a bubble too, except thanks to all of the immigration, demand has always remained strong and so has their economy and unemployment rates.
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