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Old 05-01-2013, 07:24 AM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Oh my God! So as an analogy if someone wants a new car but they don't have the money to pay for it so instead they steal it, it is the car dealership's fault because they didn't hand them the keys to the car to begin with and were forced to steal it? Did I just enter the twilight zone?
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,863,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Now if an American did this....
where did your post come from, source ? Thx.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,863,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
It's not likely that undocumented immigrants who have committed identity theft would commit anymore once they have legal status. If there was ANY sincerity in the people lamenting identity theft and fraud, they'd support giving these people status and thereby ending the very driver of identity theft and SS fraud. But we all know it was never about those crimes was it?
No, they are being rewarded for their crime. Of course it is about people wanting something for nothing and committing crimes.

Have you posted under another name ? You sound familiar.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:05 PM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
No, they are being rewarded for their crime. Of course it is about people wanting something for nothing and committing crimes.

Have you posted under another name ? You sound familiar.
I wouldn't support rewarding an American for committing ID theft so why should we reward illegals for it? I would expect them to be prosecuted by the full extent of the law. Felony is a serious crime. We aren't talking about stealing a candy bar from a store, you know.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:34 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
The have welfare, jobs and ETC like others in this country. So? None of those things are immoral. What is immoral is that they have to live in fear over a petty crime, and the only reason this continues is because of heartless fanatics who insist on being punitive to a fault.

Also, a fake Social Security Number isn't necessarily a stolen Social Security Number. You use the term "stolen" quite liberally to define anything an immigrant has. Let me break it to you, you don't own America. You don't own all the jobs in America either. To the extent that anyone "owns" a job, it would be the parties that contract the labor activity between themselves. The employer and employee own the job, not all 300 million American citizens.



Courts apply mitigating circumstances in all cases. I'm sure if an American citizen was denied a Social Security Number and the very right to work and resorted to faking one to be able to feed himself and his family, the court would show ample leniency.
So basically if an illegal does any wrong doing "turn a blind eye", its good for the country.

I guess if we live in a world where theft is nothing more than a matter of being an honest shop lifter and ATM thief a prudent soul who won the lottery its all good.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:35 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
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Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
where did your post come from, source ? Thx.
Center for immigration studies.

I've just click the link and its not there anymore. Not sure why its not?
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:03 PM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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There are immigration laws in this country and it is to protect American citizen's rights. Employers are beholding to those laws and it is against the law for them to hire illegals to work for them. It is a simple as that.

Many times the ID used is stolen not just faked. It belongs to a real person and they have had their lives destroyed over it. I guess just as long as an illegal is able to feed THEIR family though while destroying other's lives it is ok though?

Americans need to feed their families also and they have had their jobs taken by an illegal or their wages reduced because of illegal workers. They are taxed at a higher level to cover the social costs of illegals also but who cares about them, right?
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
So basically if an illegal does any wrong doing "turn a blind eye", its good for the country.
Nope, deport the violent ones. For those that used fake SSNs, make them pay extra fines, sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
I guess if we live in a world where theft is nothing more than a matter of being an honest shop lifter and ATM thief a prudent soul who won the lottery its all good.
Look there are criminals who do things because of greed, and will continue to do it due to a character flaw or whatever. And there are people who were forced in a position to do so by their legal status, which is something we don't expect to happen again.

You don't think people who lied to Nazis to hide Jews in WW2 were compulsive liars do you?

If I'm being too forgiving, then you are being too rigid. I guess this is what happens when people make laws that don't apply to them, as immigration laws are specifically made not for oneself but for other people. The laws are necessarily unresponsive to the needs of those to whom they apply.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
3,674 posts, read 5,850,725 times
Reputation: 3553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
The have welfare, jobs and ETC like others in this country. So? None of those things are immoral. What is immoral is that they have to live in fear over a petty crime, and the only reason this continues is because of heartless fanatics who insist on being punitive to a fault.

Also, a fake Social Security Number isn't necessarily a stolen Social Security Number. You use the term "stolen" quite liberally to define anything an immigrant has. Let me break it to you, you don't own America. You don't own all the jobs in America either. To the extent that anyone "owns" a job, it would be the parties that contract the labor activity between themselves. The employer and employee own the job, not all 300 million American citizens.



Courts apply mitigating circumstances in all cases. I'm sure if an American citizen was denied a Social Security Number and the very right to work and resorted to faking one to be able to feed himself and his family, the court would show ample leniency.
Whether or not the SS number already belongs to an American is irrelevant. The illegal is taking and using something that does not belong to him/her. That is theft. It is still a stolen number.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:29 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
Look there are criminals who do things because of greed, and will continue to do it due to a character flaw or whatever. And there are people who were forced in a position to do so by their legal status, which is something we don't expect to happen again.

You don't think people who lied to Nazis to hide Jews in WW2 were compulsive liars do you?

If I'm being too forgiving, then you are being too rigid. I guess this is what happens when people make laws that don't apply to them, as immigration laws are specifically made not for oneself but for other people. The laws are necessarily unresponsive to the needs of those to whom they apply.
Stealing is wrong. It doesn't matter how you look at it. Illegals are not victims. The people they steal, & take from are.

Quote:
Nope, deport the violent ones. For those that used fake SSNs, make them pay extra fines, sure.
Crime is crime. Wether its violent or non violent. There are always victims who suffer from these types of people. They need to be deported.
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