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Old 04-30-2013, 02:07 PM
 
31,638 posts, read 14,607,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Why not just go with the source your page is using for just immigrants?:



With the OhMyGov page you are just seeing a window in 2009, where they are adding the naturalizations and legal residencies together. An immigrant can be here five or fifty years before they naturalize. Mexicans naturalize at lower rates than other countries, but you seem bound to bring up this particular source for some reason.
I fail to see the relevence of your comments. The bottom line is that we have more Mexicans and other Latinos who migrated to this country either legally or illegally than any others. Why are you stuck on naturalizations?

 
Old 04-30-2013, 02:12 PM
 
31,638 posts, read 14,607,060 times
Reputation: 8431
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9162 View Post
Do you have any concept of how ill-informed, and idiotic this statement is? The U.S. is in the middle of the longest recession in its history with no end in site. There are no jobs for millions of Americans. Unskilled labor does not provide affordable living. Due to a severe increase in demand, subsidies are less available than ever, and being depleted. Taxation is already too high, and threatens any potential for job growth. The state of California is an example of the extreme damage imposed on its people caused by the huge influxes of immigration. The U.S. is the last country in the world any unskilled worker with common sense should consider living in, but because these people are well aware of subsidies and the lack of enforcement of our immigration laws, they know welfare, AFDC benefits, WIC, SNAP programs, LIHEAP, Medicaid, ESL teaching, housing vouchers are available, so they continue to come. The drain on our school system budgets is immense, we are already seeing the damage to the quality of learning in our school systems. The U.S. used to be number one in education, but now has slipped down to number 18 soley because of immigration, and the ability of illegals to enter their non-English speaking children into our schools.

This also does not mention the stress put on our resources particularly in areas where there is dwindling water supply, such as west TX, CO, AZ, NM, CA, NV, etc. Problems with pollution will be exacerbated, with cars, traffic/fossil fuel pollution and demand and increase dumping in our landfills.

Illegals will do anything, and everything possible to bypass our laws, to do whatever it takes to become another parasite, sucking the economic life out of American society. Their sense of entitlement is astounding, and believe they have every right to come here, and for us to accept their demands.
Much of the southwest is desert. It isn't just about space but ariable land space and carrying capacity which includes job availability, natural and social resources to sustain any given population.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,343 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9162 View Post
Illegals will do anything, and everything possible to bypass our laws, to do whatever it takes to become another parasite, sucking the economic life out of American society. Their sense of entitlement is astounding, and believe they have every right to come here, and for us to accept their demands.
Even the ones that don't know they are illegal?
 
Old 04-30-2013, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,822,205 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Also, the sentiments expressed in this forum are about those here illegally not legally and obviously Mexicans and other Latinos are more welcome than others by our government due to their high numbers here. We do welcome legal immigrants. My personal opinion is that we should welcome an equal number of other nationalities and ethnic groups also though without increasing our overal numbers.
I couldn't agree more.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,014,921 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I fail to see the relevence of your comments. The bottom line is that we have more Mexicans and other Latinos who migrated to this country either legally or illegally than any others. Why are you stuck on naturalizations?
If you want the number of legal immigrants coming in for the most current year, why not use the source of that data (the image I provided is from the 2011 "U.S. Legal Permanent Residents" DHS annual report, and also has the two prior years)? I'm not "stuck on naturalizations", I'm showing that data is separate (and extraneous to the topic anyway). We're back on a lack of understanding about immigration quotas again apparently, so I'll be prepared to cover that too.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 05:12 PM
 
31,638 posts, read 14,607,060 times
Reputation: 8431
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
If you want the number of legal immigrants coming in for the most current year, why not use the source of that data (the image I provided is from the 2011 "U.S. Legal Permanent Residents" DHS annual report, and also has the two prior years)? I'm not "stuck on naturalizations", I'm showing that data is separate (and extraneous to the topic anyway). We're back on a lack of understanding about immigration quotas again apparently, so I'll be prepared to cover that too.
Years 2009-2011 provided by the link backs up my claims. Quotas, LPR'S, naturalizations are irrelevant to the bottom line which is that for all three of those years most immigrants coming here are from Mexico and other Latino countries combined. Mexico leads the pack even without those other Latinos country's stats. Mexico leads the pack for illegal immigration also. I imagine this holds true further back in the past (like 1986 and forward) and the current numbers also. I have no reason to believe otherwise.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,014,921 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Years 2009-2011 provided by the link backs up my claims. Quotas, LPR'S, naturalizations are irrelevant to the bottom line which is that for all three of those years most immigrants coming here are from Mexico and other Latino countries combined. Mexico leads the pack even without those other Latinos country's stats. Mexico leads the pack for illegal immigration also. I imagine this holds true further back in the past (like 1986 and forward) and the current numbers also. I have no reason to believe otherwise.
It's time to define a couple terms:

"Legal Permanent Resident", "LPR" = "legal immigrant" (the very classification you say is "irrelevant")

"Naturalization" = An LPR (there is no other pathway) becoming a citizen (relevant to this discussion in that a citizen can sponsor some other "Immediate Relatives" for immigration that an LPR cannot)

The next chart (in the same report I referred to before) shows the categories of those gaining legal residency:



One-quarter of legal immigrants are the spouses of U.S. citizens. Ten percent are parents of U.S. citizens. Eight percent are minor children (which also means stepchildren) of U.S. citizens. Spouses and minor children of legal residents are 8% to 10%, taking the total so far to above 50%.

Meaning that more than half of legal immigrants are the "Immediate Relatives" (parents of U.S. citizens, or spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens and LPRs) of their sponsor, most without any quota limits.

At least ten percent each year are in a quota-based category with a relation to a U.S. citizen. These are the immigrants "waiting in line" to come to the United States. The quotas are only within that nationality and category, Mexicans do not block other nationalities from coming.

Just under 5% is that "Diversity Visa Program" you like. Somewhere between 13% to 15% are refugees and asylees. If you have been keeping track, we are around 80% of the total. The remainder are employment-based visas and "other" small categories.

Mexicans, as all other nationalities, are immigrating to the United States with the majority being related to a U.S. citizen. There is no bias applied to other nationalities to stop them from coming, disqualifying them as being related to a U.S. citizen to be able to immigrate, or Mexicans blocking their quotas. Do you have any other suspicions of how Mexicans can be blocking other nationalities from coming here?
 
Old 05-01-2013, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,191 posts, read 10,596,388 times
Reputation: 9363
IBMMuseum,

Regardless of your statistics; nobody asked us if we wanted to give our home away or who we wanted to give it to. Realistically; we are an English speaking country. If you gave us a choice; we would rather give our country to another English speaking country. Of course, in 1812, the British did burn Washington, DC. Perhaps we never should have rebuilt the city? Now, 200 years later, our politicians are considering ways to give away the rest of the US.

If this 'give away' was strictly for humanitarian issues; perhaps we should give our country to India. They have nine times more poor hard workers than Mexico. Like the ones that we just heard about in the Bangladesh garment factory: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/wo...anted=all&_r=0 They are willing to work long hours, in terrible working conditions, for peanuts. They also are not demanding that we fund their education, health care and retirement or that we should adopt their customs.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 06:51 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,103,006 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
It's time to define a couple terms:

"Legal Permanent Resident", "LPR" = "legal immigrant" (the very classification you say is "irrelevant")

"Naturalization" = An LPR (there is no other pathway) becoming a citizen (relevant to this discussion in that a citizen can sponsor some other "Immediate Relatives" for immigration that an LPR cannot)

The next chart (in the same report I referred to before) shows the categories of those gaining legal residency:



One-quarter of legal immigrants are the spouses of U.S. citizens. Ten percent are parents of U.S. citizens. Eight percent are minor children (which also means stepchildren) of U.S. citizens. Spouses and minor children of legal residents are 8% to 10%, taking the total so far to above 50%.

Meaning that more than half of legal immigrants are the "Immediate Relatives" (parents of U.S. citizens, or spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens and LPRs) of their sponsor, most without any quota limits.

At least ten percent each year are in a quota-based category with a relation to a U.S. citizen. These are the immigrants "waiting in line" to come to the United States. The quotas are only within that nationality and category, Mexicans do not block other nationalities from coming.

Just under 5% is that "Diversity Visa Program" you like. Somewhere between 13% to 15% are refugees and asylees. If you have been keeping track, we are around 80% of the total. The remainder are employment-based visas and "other" small categories.

Mexicans, as all other nationalities, are immigrating to the United States with the majority being related to a U.S. citizen. There is no bias applied to other nationalities to stop them from coming, disqualifying them as being related to a U.S. citizen to be able to immigrate, or Mexicans blocking their quotas. Do you have any other suspicions of how Mexicans can be blocking other nationalities from coming here?
Your data doesn't hold next to illegal aliens in the country.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 07:15 AM
 
31,638 posts, read 14,607,060 times
Reputation: 8431
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
It's time to define a couple terms:

"Legal Permanent Resident", "LPR" = "legal immigrant" (the very classification you say is "irrelevant")

"Naturalization" = An LPR (there is no other pathway) becoming a citizen (relevant to this discussion in that a citizen can sponsor some other "Immediate Relatives" for immigration that an LPR cannot)

The next chart (in the same report I referred to before) shows the categories of those gaining legal residency:



One-quarter of legal immigrants are the spouses of U.S. citizens. Ten percent are parents of U.S. citizens. Eight percent are minor children (which also means stepchildren) of U.S. citizens. Spouses and minor children of legal residents are 8% to 10%, taking the total so far to above 50%.

Meaning that more than half of legal immigrants are the "Immediate Relatives" (parents of U.S. citizens, or spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens and LPRs) of their sponsor, most without any quota limits.

At least ten percent each year are in a quota-based category with a relation to a U.S. citizen. These are the immigrants "waiting in line" to come to the United States. The quotas are only within that nationality and category, Mexicans do not block other nationalities from coming.

Just under 5% is that "Diversity Visa Program" you like. Somewhere between 13% to 15% are refugees and asylees. If you have been keeping track, we are around 80% of the total. The remainder are employment-based visas and "other" small categories.

Mexicans, as all other nationalities, are immigrating to the United States with the majority being related to a U.S. citizen. There is no bias applied to other nationalities to stop them from coming, disqualifying them as being related to a U.S. citizen to be able to immigrate, or Mexicans blocking their quotas. Do you have any other suspicions of how Mexicans can be blocking other nationalities from coming here?
Did I say they were blocking other nationalities from coming here? No, I didn't! It is our government that is choosing to allow more Mexicans to come here than any others and just because they have family here shoudn't make a difference. I don't know how many times I have to say that isn't diversity.

You can throw all the stats at me you want about the different catagories for being allowed to migrate here it makes no difference to the bottom line which is that there are more Mexicans and other Latinos here both legally and illegally than any othere group by far. If I were you I would stop spinning away from that bottom line because it doesn't change anything.
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