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Old 05-01-2013, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,130 posts, read 10,560,296 times
Reputation: 9270

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What gets me about many statistics presented by the other side is they cannot see. I live over sixteen hundred miles, as the crow flies, from our Southern border. I had a new roof put on my house by a probably illegal crew? At my part-time job our cleaning crews are mostly Hispanic ( I presume that most are legal immigrants). My county gave millions to a local factory for improvements to help our employment – only to find out that they had 81 illegal immigrants: Feds remain tight-lipped on Iridium illegal immigrant probe | PoconoRecord.com We had another company that a news crew helicopter flew over and the workers scrambled into the woods.

What I am saying is: Just look around! As Dorthy would say: This isn't Kansas anymore and clicking our heals will not help. But; we don't need the help of our government to further change the complexion/ethnicity of our area. Our country has always opened our arms to all countries – we do not have to favor one country or one group over all the others.

 
Old 05-01-2013, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Regardless of your statistics; nobody asked us if we wanted to give our home away or who we wanted to give it to. Realistically; we are an English speaking country. If you gave us a choice; we would rather give our country to another English speaking country. Of course, in 1812, the British did burn Washington, DC. Perhaps we never should have rebuilt the city? Now, 200 years later, our politicians are considering ways to give away the rest of the US.

If this 'give away' was strictly for humanitarian issues; perhaps we should give our country to India. They have nine times more poor hard workers than Mexico. Like the ones that we just heard about in the Bangladesh garment factory: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/wo...anted=all&_r=0 They are willing to work long hours, in terrible working conditions, for peanuts. They also are not demanding that we fund their education, health care and retirement or that we should adopt their customs.
Excluding people by the language they speak or their ethnicity is so 19th Century. Correct, the decision is not yours to make. It sounds like that is better anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Did I say they were blocking other nationalities from coming here? No, I didn't! It is our government that is choosing to allow more Mexicans to come here than any others and just because they have family here shoudn't make a difference. I don't know how many times I have to say that isn't diversity...
We now have to define some of the phrases you are using:

"Our government choosing to allow more Mexicans to come here..." = Related to U.S. citizens
"...than any others" = Not related to U.S. citizens

During all the time you have been here, you have maintained that immigration "quotas" are larger for Mexicans, "Latinos", and "minorities":

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...What is ironic is that many who make that claim are of the same ethnic group that hold the highest numbers in our legal immigration quotas. Strange, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...Are you aware that Hispanics enjoy the largest quotas of legal immigration into our country today by far?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...When I speak of diversity I am speaking of our quotas. They are lopsided in favor of Latinos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
How is legal vs illegal immigration a strawman argument? You do know we have immigration laws, don't you? Mexicans and other Latinos already are the largest numbers of legal immigrants in our country by far. Why do you want more rather than another ethnic/national group? I am for diversity, aren't you?

The experts already know how many legal immigrants we can allow into our country without it negatively impacting our own citizens. I am not an expert. Currently we allow in around 1 million a year. If you think that is too low or that Latinos should get an even larger quota then take it up with the experts. As I said, I am for diversity and equality in our immigration numbers...
I can only link this statement as a single response, as the topic is closed:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/25831573-post79.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
...Are you not aware that among today's quotas that it favors minorities overwhelmingly? So where is this racism? Quotas were set because our nationn no longer needed as many immigrants as when we were a new country...
And that appears to mean that you believe that immigration is by a "quota", so many let in each year, from all over the world, where a Mexican filling a "quota" number "blocks" another nationality:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
It won't continue to be diverse if Mexicans and other Latinos keep coming here in overwhelmingly higher numbers than any other group. What part of that aren't you getting? That isn't diversity! Only if we more equal the numbers from all groups could that be called diversity. We will lose our identity as an English speaking, non-Hispanic country culturally. Maybe you're up for that since you married a Mexican and seem to favor Mexicans over any other group. I'm not and neither are most other Americans up for that.

I am not going to continue this circular argument with you about so-called visa quotas and your failure to see that for every Mexican who is here that is one other nationality that is not. I have explained it as best I can but you just refuse to get it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Give it up already, will you? I note that you wouldn't address the part of my post dealing with diversity and why it is unfair for Mexicans to be able to migrate here legally more than any other nationality. That's pretty much of a tell all on your part...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Get rid of our quota system? Surely you jest. Do you know how many more millions would come here if we had no quotas. Think, man!
You express frustration when I correct those statements, and place my motivation as trying to keep it under wraps because of the ethnicity of my family. Legal immigrants almost always qualify for immigration by A.) Being related to a qualifying U.S. citizen - or - B.) With an employment-based visa. If you don't like the system that has been in place almost 50 years, you need to go at it politically. Good luck with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...You can throw all the stats at me you want about the different catagories for being allowed to migrate here it makes no difference to the bottom line which is that there are more Mexicans and other Latinos here both legally and illegally than any othere group by far. If I were you I would stop spinning away from that bottom line because it doesn't change anything.
More Mexicans and other Latinos (as well as most immigrants of other nationalities) have been able to legally immigrate here because of a relationship to a U.S. citizen. If all the Mexicans able to immigrate are not "allowed" to come, it doesn't qualify or open more quota numbers to other nationalities. Your entire premise on Latinos and Mexicans having larger quotas, or that a nationality / ethnic group is more favored and blocks other nationalities from being qualified to immigrate, is wrong. These quotes show that you believe it is an unfair system, and how you think it is set up, but you don't understand what it is.

Before you say I am commenting on legal immigration, these are your quotes about "quotas" (meaning legal immigration) made in this same section. My wife was the same as one-fourth of each year's immigrants in that her nationality didn't matter to the system, only that she was married to a U.S. citizen. You may want to give that immigration slot to an African or whatever other nationality, but that means excluding all other spouses just because they are married to a U.S. citizen. In fact, it closes out over 60% of all legal immigration: If a U.S. citizen cannot immigrate their own spouse, why should they be able to sponsor children, brothers and sisters, and parents, or legal immigrants to sponsor spouses and children?

And the moment that your system "allows" someone from Africa that also happens to be married to a U.S. citizen, I would be all over the court system of why I couldn't immigrate my wife. And the really notable thing is you put it on me as being ethnically motivated for doing so. Limiting legal immigration by ethnicity is the "unfair" system, no matter if you see it that way or not.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 01:42 PM
 
31,463 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8347
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Excluding people by the language they speak or their ethnicity is so 19th Century. Correct, the decision is not yours to make. It sounds like that is better anyway.



We now have to define some of the phrases you are using:

"Our government choosing to allow more Mexicans to come here..." = Related to U.S. citizens
"...than any others" = Not related to U.S. citizens

During all the time you have been here, you have maintained that immigration "quotas" are larger for Mexicans, "Latinos", and "minorities":









I can only link this statement as a single response, as the topic is closed:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/25831573-post79.html



And that appears to mean that you believe that immigration is by a "quota", so many let in each year, from all over the world, where a Mexican filling a "quota" number "blocks" another nationality:







You express frustration when I correct those statements, and place my motivation as trying to keep it under wraps because of the ethnicity of my family. Legal immigrants almost always qualify for immigration by A.) Being related to a qualifying U.S. citizen - or - B.) With an employment-based visa. If you don't like the system that has been in place almost 50 years, you need to go at it politically. Good luck with that.



More Mexicans and other Latinos (as well as most immigrants of other nationalities) have been able to legally immigrate here because of a relationship to a U.S. citizen. If all the Mexicans able to immigrate are not "allowed" to come, it doesn't qualify or open more quota numbers to other nationalities. Your entire premise on Latinos and Mexicans having larger quotas, or that a nationality / ethnic group is more favored and blocks other nationalities from being qualified to immigrate, is wrong. These quotes show that you believe it is an unfair system, and how you think it is set up, but you don't understand what it is.

Before you say I am commenting on legal immigration, these are your quotes about "quotas" (meaning legal immigration) made in this same section. My wife was the same as one-fourth of each year's immigrants in that her nationality didn't matter to the system, only that she was married to a U.S. citizen. You may want to give that immigration slot to an African or whatever other nationality, but that means excluding all other spouses just because they are married to a U.S. citizen. In fact, it closes out over 60% of all legal immigration: If a U.S. citizen cannot immigrate their own spouse, why should they be able to sponsor children, brothers and sisters, and parents, or legal immigrants to sponsor spouses and children?

And the moment that your system "allows" someone from Africa that also happens to be married to a U.S. citizen, I would be all over the court system of why I couldn't immigrate my wife. And the really notable thing is you put it on me as being ethnically motivated for doing so. Limiting legal immigration by ethnicity is the "unfair" system, no matter if you see it that way or not.
You just keep beating things to death and twisting the meaning of my words. No, what is unfair is allowing one ethnic group/nationality to come here for any reason more than others. Don't like my opinion then tough. Apparently diversity takes a back seat with you if it has any place at all.

I already said that it isn't Mexicans blocking others from comiing here but our government who is favoring them and yet you repeat the same thing as if I didn't address that? I do however think that just because someone is married to a U.S. citizen that it shouldn't be a separate catagory to be able to migrate here. Family ruinifications should be limited and diversity should be included in that catagory also. Again, if you don't like my opinions then tough.

You keep sidestepping the bottom line of my argument which is that Mexicans and other Latinos are here by far in more numbers than any others both legally and illegaly and I don't care what the reasons are for justifying it. I am done with this. But knowing you you will just come right back again spouting the same thing and avoiding the bottom line. You'll be talking to yourself however as I won't be replying to you about this subject again.

Last edited by Oldglory; 05-01-2013 at 02:38 PM.. Reason: spelling
 
Old 05-01-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You just keep beating things to death and twisting the meaning of my words. No, what is unfair is allowing one ethnic group/nationality to come here for any reason more than others. Don't like my opinion then tough. Apparently diversity takes a back seat with you if it has any place at all...
I am merely quoting your statements to contrast to how the system is actually implemented. Why is a comment about how any nationality/ethnicity (as all other family-based immigrants) is able to come here in larger numbers viewed as not supporting "diversity"? You call our current immigration system "unfair", whom is it being "unfair" to, and why? The question would then be to why you are their champion, if it isn't based on a stance against an ethnicity or nationality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...I already said that it isn't Mexicans blocking others from comiing here but our government who is favoring them and yet you repeat the same thing as if I didn't address that? I do however think that just because someone is married to a U.S. citizen that it shouldn't be a separate catagory to be able to migrate here. Family ruinifications should be limited and diversity should be included in that catagory also. Again, if you don't like my opinions then tough. I am done with this. But knowing you you will just come right back on the attack again anyway. You'll be talking to yourself however as I won't be replying to you about this subject again.
How is our government "favoring" Latinos? All they have done is set up a system that specifies which relatives a U.S. citizen is able to sponsor. Latin American countries and Mexico (which is actually in North America) cannot have their citizens participate in the "Diversity Visa Program" because the legal immigration numbers are too high. Tell how other ethnicities are not being "favored" by the government, and what you feel the solution should be.

You've got a Freudian slip above. Say how it should be "limited", and what part "diversity" plays in that. Am I then able to sponsor a spouse from Korea, Kenya, or Ireland, but not Mexico or Peru?

In almost all other nationalities, it is quicker and easier for the comparable relatives of a U.S. citizen to come than rather than if they were from Mexico. I am trying to understand why you say U.S. citizen abilities are diminished, but you would rather have an immigrant of a determined ethnicity (or maybe not of a specific ethnicity or nationality), and no relation to a U.S. citizen, than the spouse of a U.S. citizen. You say that someone should follow immigration law (as I have done), but support none of the allowances and waivers to that law in family-based immigration.

The only one that correct or explain your own words is you, all I am doing is quoting them. I am explaining how the system is set up to you, which seems to be necessary based on your quotes. You either need to explain how I am against "diversity", or stop labeling me as such.
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