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I read that these illegals will be qualify immediately for welfare and other social services. They should pass a law that states that ANYONE who receives government assistance are prohibited from wiring any funds out of the United States. If they got extra cash to send home to their relatives then they don't need taxpayer money.
Hm I'm pretty sure the Senate bill forbids means tested welfare for provisional immigrants. Once they come out and register with that, they'd have to give up their fake identities that they got welfare on. Forcing them to work over the table without welfare in exchange for legal recognition, sounds like a good deal.
Yes, that is unfortunate. Corruption in our government is being accellerated more every day. Anything goes for money, power and votes. Our politicians obviously don't think they need to make illegal immigrants respect our immigration laws by enforcing them and they certainly don't care about the negative impact they have on our citizens. Our enemies must be laughing behind our backs.
They are. Even our friends are.
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Originally Posted by Ubi Panis
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the irony of a staunch anti-immigration advocate attempting to emigrate to another land. Oh btw Canada is more inclusive than we are, that should help you. They certainly don't shrug everything off as "not my problem."
I'm not anti-immigration, I'm anti-stupid immigration laws. We have massive unemployment here and a burgeoning low-skilled class. There's no need to amnesty these illegals; we don't need them here. There's also no need to bring in so many H1-Bs; as has been demonstrated by many studies, we are not short of STEM degree-holders here. We are short of STEM degree-holders who will code for $15 an hour, but that isn't carte blanche to bring in tens of thousands of Indian and Chinese immigrants every year. (I make an exception for refugees and genuine asylum seekers; they deserve our assistance and our compassion. I don't see illegal aliens as refugees or asylum seekers.)
I've been an immigrant before; even though I have citizenship in more than one nation, I was born in the US and it will always be home to me. So when I emigrated to Europe, I felt like a foreigner despite being able to speak French, German, Polish, and being conversant in Spanish. I can also read and understand Portuguese, Italian, and Catalan. Heck I can even follow Luxembourgish. I spent most of my time in Poland, Germany, France, and England. I could return to any of those nations if I wanted to, or any other EU nation for that matter. I don't want to. I don't think it's better over there at all. If I had to live in Europe I would probably choose Germany but the level of anti-Semitism across Europe made me uncomfortable.
And if Canada says "No thanks, we don't need you BigDGeek" then I'll just have to stay here. In all of my travels and time abroad, I have always done things legally. I always filled out every scrap of paperwork accurately, and even made sure that I was meeting my obligation to file tax returns in the US every year. The US is one of a handful of nations that requires its citizens to file a tax return no matter where on Earth they live. Many American expats don't even realize it. I did my homework before I left.
I also went through the process of sponsoring my husband (at the time, now my ex) for a green card. We split up after he activated his green card, but he never moved to the United States; I have his papers and will continue to hold them until 2017, ten years after the card was issued. I will then destroy the documents; that is what we agreed to. When you fill out an affadavit of support with a green card application, it binds you to be financially responsible for the green card holder. If he had kept his card and decided to show up here and become a public charge (which IS possible), I'd be on the hook for at least some of that money. He wouldn't ever do that, but the papers I have are extremely valuable on the black market so we agreed that I would keep them secure.
In applying for the card we had to provide stacks of paperwork proving our financial health and his lack of criminal background. He had to get affadavits and 'police certificates' from every jurisdiction where he had spent more than X number of years, plus from the UK government. He also had an FBI background check like every other green card applicant. He had to provide proof of a long list of vaccinations, or proof that he had had those illnesses. He had to have a chest x-ray to check for tuberculosis (required of all GC applications via direct consular file). He also had to have blood tests for the hepatitis alphabet, HIV, and other infectious diseases. That blood test included a tox screen to check for illicit drug use. He also had a psychological screen, during which he confessed he had battled depression in the past. DING DING DING RED FLAG...we had to get a psych 'bypass' from a board-certified psychologist in our area stating that my husband was not in danger of becoming a public charge, was not disabled by depression, and was not a danger to himself or others. Seriously.
The process took 14 months and cost us about $3k out of pocket in application fees, medical exam fees, vaccinations, etc. We didn't even use a lawyer. We spent two days in London doing in-person interviews and medical tests. That's right...there's a very short list of physicians who can do the requried physical exam and they're all in London. It's not covered by the NHS...none of the medical stuff was. The British taxpayers aren't in the business of buffing up their citizens so they can move to another country.
The in-person interview at the US Embassy in London was very intimidating. We got there hours before our appointment time and joined a queue of about 300 people. The entire complex was surrounded by blast barriers; you cannot drive through Grosvenor Square anymore; and was heavily guarded by US Marines inside the Embassy's boundaries and by heavily armed Met police officers outside the Embassy's boundaries. Since it was the fifth anniversary of 9/11 that day, we were also treated to constant surveillance by bomb-sniffing dogs, mirrors on sticks swept under cars, and the confiscation of anything liquid. I could smoke, but I had to use matches. Luckily the man behind me in line had a spare pack. I had to turn over my lip gloss, cigarette lighter, bottle of eyedrops, and bottle of water. Our bags were searched, as in they turned them over and dumped everything out, then went through everything. They took all the coins out of my wallet and sifted through them. They looked at every single piece of paper in our GC application (a couple hundred pages). They kept my mobile phone and camera at the security booth.
I could write a book about the experience, really. It was harrowing, stressful, expensive, and lengthy. And that was for my husband, someone who didn't have to wait for a visa priority number. As the spouse of a US citizen, he was at the top of the figurative pile.
However, I don't blame that experience on a 'broken immigration system'. I blame it on a system overwhelmed by fraudsters and time-wasters, and applicants for family-based 'chain immigration' that guarantees that the USCIS is kept very busy. I think every check they did on my ex was legitimate. You don't want sick people or criminals immigrating to the US. I was actually quite impressed by the thoroughness of the process. When I emigrated, not once did I sit down with a government official to be put under oath and questioned. Not once. I was never subjected to a medical check of any kind. I held a permanent resident visa in the UK; even though I was authorized to work on a German passport, life was easier with the visa. Do you know what I did to get it? Stapled a picture to 3 pieces of paper, popped that and my US passport and marriage certificate in the mail, and it came back 5 weeks later with a permanent resident visa pasted inside. Insane.
I formed my opinions about this issue via a lot of personal experience...experience that most Americans do not, and will never, have. I'm not some uninformed dolt.
If we had to go through all of that...the time, the expense, the checks, the stress...what the hell makes these fence-jumpers think that it's OK for them to jump the queue then demand anything? They complain about the 13 year timeframe? How dare they! They're being handed something on a silver platter that they didn't earn, and they're complaining about having to get in line to get it? Ungrateful idiots. Seriously. I cannot stand that entitlement attitude. It makes me sick.
If the legal system tells you it will take 163 years to re-unite with your sibling from Mexico, who may be your only remaining family, then effectively it tells you there is no legal way for them to immigrate. There are many immigrants who do not have a realistic path to legally immigrate. When people "jump the fence" it's not to spite authorities or the hardworking taxpayer, it's because the legal system simply shuts them out.
Maybe I unfairly called you anti-immigration, but it does sound like you want lower levels of immigration. "We don't need them" is an incredibly presumptuous statement to make, since you are in no way the spokesperson of what the American people need. Businesses need them, they have lobbied for reform. Separated families need them. Our seniors need young laborers to pay into social security and God knows Americans aren't multiplying like they used to. Many Americans do need immigrants.
The legal system is incredibly restrictive, sometimes for good reasons, such as restricting criminals and those with contagious diseases, and other times for bad reasons, like country quotas which are clearly designed to keep Hispanics and Indians out. Immigrating to the country used to be a lot easier, heck the whole country is immigrants or descendants of immigrants, and somehow we've managed to become this country where people take immense risk to get in. I don't think immigration is such a drain considering our history and our current dominant position in the world. If anything, we should have more immigration. It worked to bring us to this juncture.
The thorough vetting process you speak of is very important. It's exactly why we need to subject the 11 million here to this process, keep the ones we like, and send back the ones we don't. If you want all of them deported, then none of them are gonna come out of the shadows, and nothing will get done. Without them coming out to us, we can't conceivably hunt them down. The only way that happens if we profile every Latino, that's not possible due to the Bill of Rights. Just deporting people who turn up in our criminal justice system costs $6,000 piece in enforcement, court costs, detainment costs and the cost of their ticket back home. The cost of actively hunting them down will be way more, not to mention it'll be incredibly disruptive to legal immigrants and minority people who'd have to get vetted for no fault of their own.
A very selective and conditional process of amnesty is better than the current de facto amnesty in my opinion.
If the legal system tells you it will take 163 years to re-unite with your sibling from Mexico, who may be your only remaining family, then effectively it tells you there is no legal way for them to immigrate. There are many immigrants who do not have a realistic path to legally immigrate. When people "jump the fence" it's not to spite authorities or the hardworking taxpayer, it's because the legal system simply shuts them out.
I don't care. We have standards for a reason, and if they don't meet those standards then they can't come in. What's next...are we going to allow whining entitled kids to invade Ivy League universities because their admissions system simply shuts them out?
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Maybe I unfairly called you anti-immigration, but it does sound like you want lower levels of immigration. "We don't need them" is an incredibly presumptuous statement to make, since you are in no way the spokesperson of what the American people need. Businesses need them, they have lobbied for reform. Separated families need them. Our seniors need young laborers to pay into social security and God knows Americans aren't multiplying like they used to. Many Americans do need immigrants.
No, we don't. Businesses 'need' them because they are easily exploited and will work for less money, leaving Americans out in the cold. 'Separated' families became separated voluntarily. Nobody kidnapped them and forced them to come here, and no other first world nation has the level of 'family reunification' visas that we do. If you move here from India, you have to realize that you're going to be leaving your parents and siblings behind. Why should they get to come here just because you're here? Go visit them.
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The legal system is incredibly restrictive, sometimes for good reasons, such as restricting criminals and those with contagious diseases, and other times for bad reasons, like country quotas which are clearly designed to keep Hispanics and Indians out. Immigrating to the country used to be a lot easier, heck the whole country is immigrants or descendants of immigrants, and somehow we've managed to become this country where people take immense risk to get in. I don't think immigration is such a drain considering our history and our current dominant position in the world. If anything, we should have more immigration. It worked to bring us to this juncture.
Whatever. We have quotas on some nations for some visa types because if we didn't, the instant those visas became available they would be immediately and automatically snapped up by applicants from only a handful of nations, leaving applicants from other countries out in the cold. That's just the way the system works. We shouldn't even be giving visas to adult siblings and parents, I don't care where they're from. But you are grossly oversimplifying the process, and overlooking people from almost every other nation on Earth, when you claim that quotas are unfair. It's a white lie.
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The thorough vetting process you speak of is very important. It's exactly why we need to subject the 11 million here to this process, keep the ones we like, and send back the ones we don't. If you want all of them deported, then none of them are gonna come out of the shadows, and nothing will get done. Without them coming out to us, we can't conceivably hunt them down. The only way that happens if we profile every Latino, that's not possible due to the Bill of Rights. Just deporting people who turn up in our criminal justice system costs $6,000 piece in enforcement, court costs, detainment costs and the cost of their ticket back home. The cost of actively hunting them down will be way more, not to mention it'll be incredibly disruptive to legal immigrants and minority people who'd have to get vetted for no fault of their own.
This has been discussed and dissected to death in other threads here. You don't have to go find every single one and deport them. You need to target your actions to get the most bang for your buck, and you need to go after employers BIG TIME. Dry up the jobs, dry up the benefits, publicize some mass deportations, and a lot of them will simply leave on their own.
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A very selective and conditional process of amnesty is better than the current de facto amnesty in my opinion.
No amnesty is the best option, and the only good one for the future of this country.
FYI, I reported your post because of the absurdly large image file you felt like inserting in there. I didn't get to see it because it was taking forever to load.
If the legal system tells you it will take 163 years to re-unite with your sibling from Mexico, who may be your only remaining family, then effectively it tells you there is no legal way for them to immigrate. There are many immigrants who do not have a realistic path to legally immigrate. When people "jump the fence" it's not to spite authorities or the hardworking taxpayer, it's because the legal system simply shuts them out.
Perhaps you don't realize Mexico is the #1 country for legal immigration in the United States. In fact, more than twice as many Mexicans are "reunited" with their families than the second country on the list. So, please explain how Mexicans are "shut out" of our legal immigration process, and therefore have no alternative but to enter our country illegally or deliberately overstay visas.
I have previously posted data from USCIS to substantiate the above. I will see if I can locate it.
Perhaps you don't realize Mexico is the #1 country for legal immigration in the United States. In fact, more than twice as many Mexicans are "reunited" with their families than the second country on the list. So, please explain how Mexicans are "shut out" of our legal immigration process, and therefore have no alternative but to enter our country illegally or deliberately overstay visas.
I have previously posted data from USCIS to substantiate the above. I will see if I can locate it.
Perhaps you don't realize Mexico is the #1 country for legal immigration in the United States. In fact, more than twice as many Mexicans are "reunited" with their families than the second country on the list. So, please explain how Mexicans are "shut out" of our legal immigration process, and therefore have no alternative but to enter our country illegally or deliberately overstay visas.
I have previously posted data from USCIS to substantiate the above. I will see if I can locate it.
I believe you said "all other countries combined" originally...
But no, "twice" is no longer true. Chinese Nationals have really increased in the last few years, at the same time Mexicans are coming in decreasing numbers. I'm working from the Department of Homeland Security numbers, if you'll accept that as a source.
"...Combining all those who received Legal Permanent Residence (i.e. green card) and all those who were naturalized (i.e. became citizens) in 2009, our total immigration tally was nearly 1.9 million persons..."
Then it's a false chart for showing immigration (in 2009) because it also combines naturalization numbers in the total...
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