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Old 11-08-2007, 11:02 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983

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Once again, I'll try to point out the basic way we're "skirting the issue" here. Of COURSE most illegals aren't violent criminals---of COURSE they're basically "good" people in bad circumstances. But, ignoring the fact for a moment that they've violated the law to get here, the issue of more serious crime is still not being addressed truthfully.

"Illegal crime" and "domestic crime" are two separate issues, as I've said before. "Domestic" crime is a "given". We're stuck with "our" home-grown "bad boys" and have no choice but to deal with them. (Great Britain once shipped THEIRS off to Australia, but that option is now closed.)

Illegal alien criminals are somebody ELSE'S "bad boys". Their crimes wouldn't happen here at all, if they weren't here---and that's a fact. It has nothing to do with racism, or xenophobia, or "meannness"..it's even possible that the illegal population has a LOWER rate of violent crime than some segments of the AMERICAN population....none of this changes the fact that illegals aren't supposed to BE HERE, and if they weren't here, none of them would be committing any crimes here.

If the members of an exclusive, expensive country club are found to be abusing the club facilities, that's one thing. If NON-MEMBERS are coming in off the street, uninvited, and abusing the facilities, that's an entirely separate issue.

If you have a set of rowdy children, and they beat up your house, that's one thing. If the rowdy NEIGHBOR kid comes over and beats up your house, that's an entirely different matter.
Few people would have any difficulty understanding this concept if it happened to them in their personal life-- but when it's affecting a whole society, somehow we don't see the connection..

 
Old 11-08-2007, 11:10 AM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,687,512 times
Reputation: 2988
This was in Feb 2007.


More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says (OneNewsNow.com) (broken link)

More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says -- GOPUSA (http://www.gopusa.com/news/2007/february/0222_illegals_report.shtml - broken link)

Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war, says a new report from Family Security Matters that estimates some 2,158 murders are committed every year by illegal aliens in the U.S. The group says that number is more than 15 percent of all the murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the U.S. and about three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population.

Those Who Hire Illegal Aliens Cause Americans 9,125 Deaths Annually
By Frosty Wooldridge (08/14/06)

Iowa's United States Congressman Steve King told a crowd in Des Moines in June, "Illegal aliens cause the death of 25 American citizens every day...13 by drunken driving and 12 by stabbings or gun fire."

That daily figure adds up to 9,125 deaths annually caused primarily by illegal alien Mexicans residing in America.
Mike Rosen, radio talk show host in Denver, said it wasn’t significant when you consider our country of 300 million. A listener corrected him, “It’s not significant unless it’s your father or family member who gets killed.”

More sobering, almost eight times as many deaths of civilian Americans have occurred in our own country in three years than deaths to our soldiers in the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones.
It’s safer in a war zone than on our own highways and in our own homes in America.
At the same time, South Koreans are safer in their own homes with 37,000 American troops guarding their border from North Korea for the past 40 years--with our troops and tax dollars--than we are in our own country.

Why do Americans suffer this kind of carnage in their own nation? Who is to blame? Why would any American knowingly do this to his own country, to his own neighbors?

Those Who Hire Illegal Aliens Cause Americans 9,125 Deaths Annually - Frosty Wooldridge - Aug 14, 06

This article is long.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, I'll try to point out the basic way we're "skirting the issue" here. Of COURSE most illegals aren't violent criminals---of COURSE they're basically "good" people in bad circumstances. But, ignoring the fact for a moment that they've violated the law to get here, the issue of more serious crime is still not being addressed truthfully.

"Illegal crime" and "domestic crime" are two separate issues, as I've said before. "Domestic" crime is a "given". We're stuck with "our" home-grown "bad boys" and have no choice but to deal with them. (Great Britain once shipped THEIRS off to Australia, but that option is now closed.)

Illegal alien criminals are somebody ELSE'S "bad boys". Their crimes wouldn't happen here at all, if they weren't here---and that's a fact. It has nothing to do with racism, or xenophobia, or "meannness"..it's even possible that the illegal population has a LOWER rate of violent crime than some segments of the AMERICAN population....none of this changes the fact that illegals aren't supposed to BE HERE, and if they weren't here, none of them would be committing any crimes here.

If the members of an exclusive, expensive country club are found to be abusing the club facilities, that's one thing. If NON-MEMBERS are coming in off the street, uninvited, and abusing the facilities, that's an entirely separate issue.

If you have a set of rowdy children, and they beat up your house, that's one thing. If the rowdy NEIGHBOR kid comes over and beats up your house, that's an entirely different matter.
Few people would have any difficulty understanding this concept if it happened to them in their personal life-- but when it's affecting a whole society, somehow we don't see the connection..
Awsome post. If your son throws a rock through your window its an issue between you and your son. If the neighbors kid does it this changes the dynamics of the situation entirly. When illegals commit crimes now we must include their parent nation into the mix. This becomes tedious depending on that nations view of the law broken and how they feel it should be punished.
As someone mentioned age of consent. In the USA molesting a 12 year old normally carries a severe penalty in mexico none at all.. Not to mention it would not have happened had the illegal never been here to begin with.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 11:15 AM
 
2 posts, read 4,159 times
Reputation: 10
I agree that it really is not a racial question -- except that most of the anti-immigrant sentiment comes most loudly from racial bigots.

The real problem with illegal immigration is that it is ILLEGAL. Most posters echo that fact ad nauseum. What fails to be discussed often enough is the REASON that all those people have to cross the border illegally.

The government of Mexico is responsible for the welfare of the Mexican people, not the U.S., not Canada, and not the United Nations. Mexico has done an abysmal job of taking care of its own people, and it shows no signs of taking even the slightest responsibility. When was the last news report you remember seeing wherein a journalist or typical "talking head" asked hard-hitting questions of a Mexican politician? Can you even name the head of the Mexican gov't agency assigned to monitor public health or welfare benefits? Do you think there even is one?

Instead of allowing illegal immigration to become a divisive issue between American common citizens, all of us should have been aiming our sights at the Federal gov't a long time ago. It is only our Federal gov't that has the power to forge ties or impose sanctions on foreign countries.

Instead of forcing the people of each State to resort to drastic measures like deportation and the destruction of generations of families who have made their lives working hard in this country, our government should have imposed HEAVY sanctions against the gov't of Mexico and perhaps even sued them in international court. You have the richest nation on earth living directly next to one of the poorest -- does anyone honestly think there's going to be no visible consequences to this???

The only reason an economic solution has never been reached between our two countries is because the gov't of Mexico is so corrupt, they have no incentive whatsoever to stop taking advantage of their people or to spend their own money establishing social welfare programs. There are only two classes of people in Mexico -- you are either rich or you are dirt poor. That is not by accident.

When was the last time anyone suggested placing the economic responsibility on the shoulders of the actual guilty parties?
 
Old 11-08-2007, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
This was in Feb 2007.


More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says (OneNewsNow.com) (broken link)

More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says -- GOPUSA (http://www.gopusa.com/news/2007/february/0222_illegals_report.shtml - broken link)

Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war, says a new report from Family Security Matters that estimates some 2,158 murders are committed every year by illegal aliens in the U.S. The group says that number is more than 15 percent of all the murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the U.S. and about three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population.

Those Who Hire Illegal Aliens Cause Americans 9,125 Deaths Annually
By Frosty Wooldridge (08/14/06)

Iowa's United States Congressman Steve King told a crowd in Des Moines in June, "Illegal aliens cause the death of 25 American citizens every day...13 by drunken driving and 12 by stabbings or gun fire."

That daily figure adds up to 9,125 deaths annually caused primarily by illegal alien Mexicans residing in America.
Mike Rosen, radio talk show host in Denver, said it wasn’t significant when you consider our country of 300 million. A listener corrected him, “It’s not significant unless it’s your father or family member who gets killed.”

More sobering, almost eight times as many deaths of civilian Americans have occurred in our own country in three years than deaths to our soldiers in the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones.
It’s safer in a war zone than on our own highways and in our own homes in America.
At the same time, South Koreans are safer in their own homes with 37,000 American troops guarding their border from North Korea for the past 40 years--with our troops and tax dollars--than we are in our own country.

Why do Americans suffer this kind of carnage in their own nation? Who is to blame? Why would any American knowingly do this to his own country, to his own neighbors?

Those Who Hire Illegal Aliens Cause Americans 9,125 Deaths Annually - Frosty Wooldridge - Aug 14, 06

This article is long.
Facts are facts but some will try to say if we only allowed them a free pass they would never have felt the need to murder.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 11:18 AM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,687,512 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Facts are facts but some will try to say if we only allowed them a free pass they would never have felt the need to murder.
Yeah I know and Cows jump over the moon too!
 
Old 11-08-2007, 12:25 PM
 
Location: OKC, OK
640 posts, read 336,516 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
Americans really don't know how good they have it and how bad most Mexicans have it. If they do know, they will tell you it is not Americas problem, but I think as neighbors it is our problem.

Congrats on dating someone who has opened your eyes and your heart to Mexico and Mexican way of life.

Did you know Mexico is also the #38 happiest country in the world, compared to United States at 150?
Countries Listed in HPI order (http://www.happyplanetindex.org/list.htm - broken link)

The mexican people are not mean, however, they are portrayed this way in our media as cruel monsters ripping the toys out of Americans hands. This is a huge mistake by American media and is going to possibly ruin relations with Mexico. All of the this late uprising against illegals will die off after the elections.

Gee. Mexico is 38th happiest country in the world. And yet, the Mexicans keep coming into AMERICA! Wonder how that is?

If you don't like the fact that coming to America requires application and approval, then don't come here. Do not whine while you are sitting in jail awaiting deportation because you CHOSE to break our law! I'll continue to mow my own lawn and I'll pay a little more for my strawberries and spinach. Oklahoma has made the right decision to keep illegals out.

 
Old 11-08-2007, 01:31 PM
 
Location: NM
402 posts, read 938,169 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Oklahoma has made the right decision to keep illegals out.
Now if other states will follow their lead, we will be on our way to solving this problem.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 01:33 PM
 
Location: OKC, OK
640 posts, read 336,516 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choctaw2 View Post


Now if other states will follow their lead, we will be on our way to solving this problem.
You got it!
 
Old 11-08-2007, 02:04 PM
 
635 posts, read 1,559,714 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ;1945395
Gee. Mexico is 38th happiest country in the world. And yet, the Mexicans keep coming into AMERICA! Wonder how that is?
How do you determine what is considered a happy country and where did you find that stat? The truth is there's a very wealthy class in Mexico, and an extremely large poor class in Mexico. Obviously the poor people are going to immigrate, and the rich for the most part will stay. I don't see your point on a country being overall happy in its regard to immigration.
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