Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:03 PM
 
3,943 posts, read 6,354,298 times
Reputation: 4232

Advertisements

I'm not sure what you call credible. I read about it all the time, and have witnessed a lot
of it because of the volunteer work I do. One wrecked my daughters car and ran. A lot have caused death, including a friend of mines' daughter.
Heres one: Why America is Dying...and What to Do About it
edit
You should be able to find a lot. just google it.

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-31-2007 at 10:10 PM.. Reason: We can't link to other message boards

 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,019,034 times
Reputation: 3861
There may be a 'race' factor at work concerning Mexicans, etc.

The White ones who tend to be Middle Class seldom come across illegally------they have no reason to do so.

So that leaves the 'brown' ones who are discriminated against-------in Mexico.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,129,311 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess5 View Post
I'm not sure what you call credible. I read about it all the time, and have witnessed a lot
of it because of the volunteer work I do. One wrecked my daughters car and ran. A lot have caused death, including a friend of mines' daughter.
Heres one: Why America is Dying...and What to Do About it
edit
You should be able to find a lot. just google it.
When I had googled it I was provided a listing of blog sites purporting to have the information. In scanning a few of the blogs I didn't see references or links to any official sites, mostly rhetoric and references to other blog sites.

When I see stuff like this it makes me skeptical. I did a search in the Dept of Justice site, FBI crime stats site and Gov't Accountability Office site looking for source data or reports, and came up empty.

When searching for counter info, to see if anyone had previously challenged these assumptions, I found a blog by Mike Medved which stated the following:

Here are the facts, easily available from the FBI, the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, the General Accounting Office, the Congressional Budget Office, or any other reputable source:

Among inmates in federal prisons, it’s true that a highly disproportionate number of prisoners have been classified as “non-citizens” or “criminal aliens.” Many of these immigrants turn up in federal prison because of problems with their immigration status (surprise!) or because they’re involved with the interstate or international drug trade.

But federal prisoners represent only a small percentage – just 8%--of our total prison population. The bulk of inmates have been incarcerated in state prisons (including nearly all convicts accused of murder)and there, non-citizens are, if anything, under-represented: amounting to less than 5% of the prisoner population.

Taking the total state-federal prison population (2,193,798) and the total number of non-citizens in both systems (122,708), the actual percentage of “criminal aliens” in our prisons amounts to 5.5% --- not even remotely close to the 29% or “one third” claimed by demagogues.

Repeatedly misrepresenting the percentage of “illegals” in our prisons by a factor of more than 5 to 1 amounts to more than a trivial mistake, and becomes an outrageous, irresponsible, indefensible lie.

As a matter of fact, the distortion is even worse than an overstatement of some 500% because the 5.5% in the prison system represents not “illegal aliens” but all “non-citizens” –including legal immigrants, and those here on temporary visas, and so forth. Every academic study (including conclusive work done at Harvard, University of Chicago, University of California, San Diego, and elsewhere) suggests that illegal immigrants are less likely, not more likely, than legal immigrants to involve themselves in criminal activity—in part because of their fear of deportation.


Townhall.com::Blog



Now, this isn't an original source either, but it had some statistical information, and I wanted to present another perspective for consideration in the overall discussion.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:29 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,934,596 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
When I had googled it I was provided a listing of blog sites purporting to have the information. In scanning a few of the blogs I didn't see references or links to any official sites, mostly rhetoric and references to other blog sites.

When I see stuff like this it makes me skeptical. I did a search in the Dept of Justice site, FBI crime stats site and Gov't Accountability Office site looking for source data or reports, and came up empty.

When searching for counter info, to see if anyone had previously challenged these assumptions, I found a blog by Mike Medved which stated the following:

Here are the facts, easily available from the FBI, the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, the General Accounting Office, the Congressional Budget Office, or any other reputable source:

Among inmates in federal prisons, it’s true that a highly disproportionate number of prisoners have been classified as “non-citizens” or “criminal aliens.” Many of these immigrants turn up in federal prison because of problems with their immigration status (surprise!) or because they’re involved with the interstate or international drug trade.

But federal prisoners represent only a small percentage – just 8%--of our total prison population. The bulk of inmates have been incarcerated in state prisons (including nearly all convicts accused of murder)and there, non-citizens are, if anything, under-represented: amounting to less than 5% of the prisoner population.

Taking the total state-federal prison population (2,193,798) and the total number of non-citizens in both systems (122,708), the actual percentage of “criminal aliens” in our prisons amounts to 5.5% --- not even remotely close to the 29% or “one third” claimed by demagogues.

Repeatedly misrepresenting the percentage of “illegals” in our prisons by a factor of more than 5 to 1 amounts to more than a trivial mistake, and becomes an outrageous, irresponsible, indefensible lie.

As a matter of fact, the distortion is even worse than an overstatement of some 500% because the 5.5% in the prison system represents not “illegal aliens” but all “non-citizens” –including legal immigrants, and those here on temporary visas, and so forth. Every academic study (including conclusive work done at Harvard, University of Chicago, University of California, San Diego, and elsewhere) suggests that illegal immigrants are less likely, not more likely, than legal immigrants to involve themselves in criminal activity—in part because of their fear of deportation.


Townhall.com::Blog



Now, this isn't an original source either, but it had some statistical information, and I wanted to present another perspective for consideration in the overall discussion.

Nice find.. its amazing how extreme radical anti-illegal websites can take things sooo far beyond its context.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:35 PM
 
3,943 posts, read 6,354,298 times
Reputation: 4232
Thanks NewTOCA. I'm open to read up on anything.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:37 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,934,596 times
Reputation: 138
I also think that many people "assume" a lot of illegals are in Americas jails because they see those good for nothing Mexican Gangsters.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:50 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,431 posts, read 18,936,878 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
I firmly believe that if Mexico recalled all of it's citizens back into Mexico and then asked for Aid, the US would gladly hand it to them.

But to illegally invade another country, for whatever reason, is wrong. As such, they're not looked on favorably.

Why should the United States do that? Mexico is ALREADY one of the wealthiest countries in the world. The rich whities at the top just don't want to share it.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:57 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 795,889 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by raelynn View Post
OK!! I really feel that the immigration laws that are soon coming into affect in oklahoma are really kinda ridiculous. I see both sides of the fence with having a hispanic boyfriend, hispanic family, and having visited towns in mexico I understand really why hispanics come to the US for a better life. I also see how americans sometimes are cheated out of jobs, turned down for benefits, and not being able to support their families because of simply no income. I understand that frustration but this law is saying that illegal immigrants can not recieve benefits or jobs in oklahoma that tax payers shouldn't have to spend their tax dollars on them but honestly look at the amount of legal americans that tax payers are ok with paying for their food and housing becuase they are simply to lazy to find a job or get off the drugs and take care of their kids. i dont understand how you would rather pay for someone who doesnt work and have the want to take care of themselves and their family but they are not ok with illegal immigrants who work hard everyday longer then 8 hours for half the wage to try to support their family and do good for themselves. I have been to a town in Mexico called Obregon and 12 miles away from there is were i stayed in a village is what i would call it but it was called Campo 67 and seen the way that they live. We live in nice brick houses with carpet, central heat and air, a working sewage system...i was way out of my comfort level for the fact that i slept in a cement block that had two rooms a kitchen and bedroom which was also the living room, dinning room, that as soon as you walked into the bedroom you automatically see the restroom....which has no hot water and if you want hot water you have to take one in the middle of the day from the sun heating the water. Every 5 mins dumping the bucket so your bedroom doesnt flood from the extra water. not being able to flush your toliet paper, or not to sleep in your own bed but to share with your entire family. not having the money to have a car or to leave the camp to go to a movie or have fun with your friends. If your not born into a rich family in mexico this is the way you live unless you do come to the united states!! Americans would be disgusted if they had to pump another persons gas like in the old days for 12 to 14 hours a day in the hot sun with maybe one or no break for 60 dollars a week!! Never would an american do that but my sister in law did that just to put food on the table for her daughters, to keep the electricity on, and to provide for her family. It makes me sick to know that people live off the government and what for that check every month just to feed their durg addiction and to have there kids fend for themsleves thats were kids become gang bangers, drug dealers, and murders. Yes illegal immigrants cause some violence and break laws but are you seriously going to blame it all on them just to make the legal americans that do the same look as if they dont do anything wrong. I'm not saying that illegals should just come into the US and not have papers and that its ok but dont pass a law on people that are trying the hardest to make it for themselves when there are people in the US that are doing worse then they are. The US is dealing with Iraq and terrorists when they are across waters....you send all the illegal mexicans back to mexico and I think that you are going to have more problems then the iraqis across the waters. HELLO Mexico is our neighbor there will be all kinds of terrorist attacks on us they are right there they dont have to cross waters to bombs us or attack us!!! I love being an american and having my freedom but telling me that if you catch me with an illegal in my truck or my house your going to arrest me and take me to jail or fine me a 1000 dollars i think that is stupid and your going to be arresting alot of people. and tax payers are going to be paying more money for housing and food for the illegals and people who are put in jail for knowing about illegals while they are in jail!!! Oklahoma is going to be hit very hard when there is no one to build houses, mow their own lawn, be forced to work in situations that illagal immigrants will work in because AMERICANS WILL NOT!!! im not going to lie i have an illegal immigrant mow my lawn because i will and dont know how. I think its going to be a shock on oklahomans on how much they rely on those illegal immigrants!! im sorry if you dont agree with me but thats how i feel. im going to say one more thing and i heard on the news today that someone commented that maybe the US should make Mexico the 51st state so that they would pay taxes and the issues would be solved!! thanks raelynn
what???????
are you kidding?
when i read the thread, i was curious, but after reading, this is what i have to say....
american benefits are for american citizens...not illegal aliens. get over it.
some american citizens on welfare or disability or s.s. are in need...and their need is minimized by the aid in dollars to illegal aliens.
as for the living conditions in mexico, some native american indians are living exactly the same way...do we see the mexican government or it's citizens supporting those tribes?
and also, there are white, black asian, etc american citizens who live exactly that way because they have no other option.
yes, some illegals break some laws....as you say, ...like it is ok....
some murder , rape, execute ,drink and drive(like the crime an illegal committed on cinco de mayo 1996, and my husband almost died as his victim,) and some, hijack airplanes and crash them into buildings....need i remind you of the 9-11 illegals who did those terrible things?
my nephew is over "across the water" fighting for freedom...someone elses freedom, and in the end, our freedom, too.
do you really think i am afraid of war with mexico?
seems to me that if 20 + million illegal immigrants are coming here, then there is a problem not with america , but the country they fled.
and yes...if you are caught with an illegal in your car, knowing they are illegal, then you are part of the problem, thinking it's not treason.
i have many okie family, and i really dont think they are worried about losing the illegal...after all, they did survive the dust bowl, for christs sake.
if you invade my country, i will defend her...pass that along to your lawn boy.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,129,311 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess5 View Post
Thanks NewTOCA. I'm open to read up on anything.
No problem. Illegal immigration wasn't a major issue to me prior to becoming a board mod. I saw some of the postings here and started reading up on the subject trying to find as much accurate information as possible. What I found was there are a lot of advocacy sites and blogs in the web sphere, mostly anti-illegal but some pro-illegal too, and a lot of narrative and quoting of other sources but little in way of statistical analysis and sources such as the FBI, DOJ or GAO. It made it difficult to differentiate what was being stated to garner support, vs what was a legitimate problem.

Kind of makes it hard to have an intelligent and informed discussion when many of us end up using sources which aren't accurate. I think the problem is pretty substantial in and of itself, without inflating any numbers about criminal activity.

But I'm always open to new perspectives which are factually based. None of us ever really has all of "the answer."
 
Old 10-31-2007, 11:00 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,934,596 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
Why should the United States do that? Mexico is ALREADY one of the wealthiest countries in the world. The rich whities at the top just don't want to share it.

Clearly an assumption. If not, I would like to see your source. On the other hand, Mexico has a VERY large gap when it comes to poor and rich. The Rich are very rich and the poor are very poor. Middle class is virtually un-existent. Example: The Richest man in the world is Mexican; Him and his family account for roughly 8% of Mexico's GDP.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top