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Old 10-31-2007, 12:01 AM
 
43 posts, read 80,987 times
Reputation: 12

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OK!! I really feel that the immigration laws that are soon coming into affect in oklahoma are really kinda ridiculous. I see both sides of the fence with having a hispanic boyfriend, hispanic family, and having visited towns in mexico I understand really why hispanics come to the US for a better life. I also see how americans sometimes are cheated out of jobs, turned down for benefits, and not being able to support their families because of simply no income. I understand that frustration but this law is saying that illegal immigrants can not recieve benefits or jobs in oklahoma that tax payers shouldn't have to spend their tax dollars on them but honestly look at the amount of legal americans that tax payers are ok with paying for their food and housing becuase they are simply to lazy to find a job or get off the drugs and take care of their kids. i dont understand how you would rather pay for someone who doesnt work and have the want to take care of themselves and their family but they are not ok with illegal immigrants who work hard everyday longer then 8 hours for half the wage to try to support their family and do good for themselves. I have been to a town in Mexico called Obregon and 12 miles away from there is were i stayed in a village is what i would call it but it was called Campo 67 and seen the way that they live. We live in nice brick houses with carpet, central heat and air, a working sewage system...i was way out of my comfort level for the fact that i slept in a cement block that had two rooms a kitchen and bedroom which was also the living room, dinning room, that as soon as you walked into the bedroom you automatically see the restroom....which has no hot water and if you want hot water you have to take one in the middle of the day from the sun heating the water. Every 5 mins dumping the bucket so your bedroom doesnt flood from the extra water. not being able to flush your toliet paper, or not to sleep in your own bed but to share with your entire family. not having the money to have a car or to leave the camp to go to a movie or have fun with your friends. If your not born into a rich family in mexico this is the way you live unless you do come to the united states!! Americans would be disgusted if they had to pump another persons gas like in the old days for 12 to 14 hours a day in the hot sun with maybe one or no break for 60 dollars a week!! Never would an american do that but my sister in law did that just to put food on the table for her daughters, to keep the electricity on, and to provide for her family. It makes me sick to know that people live off the government and what for that check every month just to feed their durg addiction and to have there kids fend for themsleves thats were kids become gang bangers, drug dealers, and murders. Yes illegal immigrants cause some violence and break laws but are you seriously going to blame it all on them just to make the legal americans that do the same look as if they dont do anything wrong. I'm not saying that illegals should just come into the US and not have papers and that its ok but dont pass a law on people that are trying the hardest to make it for themselves when there are people in the US that are doing worse then they are. The US is dealing with Iraq and terrorists when they are across waters....you send all the illegal mexicans back to mexico and I think that you are going to have more problems then the iraqis across the waters. HELLO Mexico is our neighbor there will be all kinds of terrorist attacks on us they are right there they dont have to cross waters to bombs us or attack us!!! I love being an american and having my freedom but telling me that if you catch me with an illegal in my truck or my house your going to arrest me and take me to jail or fine me a 1000 dollars i think that is stupid and your going to be arresting alot of people. and tax payers are going to be paying more money for housing and food for the illegals and people who are put in jail for knowing about illegals while they are in jail!!! Oklahoma is going to be hit very hard when there is no one to build houses, mow their own lawn, be forced to work in situations that illagal immigrants will work in because AMERICANS WILL NOT!!! im not going to lie i have an illegal immigrant mow my lawn because i will and dont know how. I think its going to be a shock on oklahomans on how much they rely on those illegal immigrants!! im sorry if you dont agree with me but thats how i feel. im going to say one more thing and i heard on the news today that someone commented that maybe the US should make Mexico the 51st state so that they would pay taxes and the issues would be solved!! thanks raelynn

 
Old 10-31-2007, 12:05 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,064 posts, read 15,475,124 times
Reputation: 5288
I really want to read this, but can you break it up into readable paragraphs please? It looks like a block of goo on my screen.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 12:34 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,064 posts, read 15,475,124 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by raelynn View Post
OK!! I really feel that the immigration laws that are soon coming into affect in oklahoma are really kinda ridiculous. I see both sides of the fence with having a hispanic boyfriend, hispanic family, and having visited towns in mexico I understand really why hispanics come to the US for a better life. I also see how americans sometimes are cheated out of jobs, turned down for benefits, and not being able to support their families because of simply no income.

I understand that frustration but this law is saying that illegal immigrants can not recieve benefits or jobs in oklahoma that tax payers shouldn't have to spend their tax dollars on them but honestly look at the amount of legal americans that tax payers are ok with paying for their food and housing becuase they are simply to lazy to find a job or get off the drugs and take care of their kids. i dont understand how you would rather pay for someone who doesnt work and have the want to take care of themselves and their family but they are not ok with illegal immigrants who work hard everyday longer then 8 hours for half the wage to try to support their family and do good for themselves.

I have been to a town in Mexico called Obregon and 12 miles away from there is were i stayed in a village is what i would call it but it was called Campo 67 and seen the way that they live. We live in nice brick houses with carpet, central heat and air, a working sewage system...i was way out of my comfort level for the fact that i slept in a cement block that had two rooms a kitchen and bedroom which was also the living room, dinning room, that as soon as you walked into the bedroom you automatically see the restroom....which has no hot water and if you want hot water you have to take one in the middle of the day from the sun heating the water. Every 5 mins dumping the bucket so your bedroom doesnt flood from the extra water. not being able to flush your toliet paper, or not to sleep in your own bed but to share with your entire family. not having the money to have a car or to leave the camp to go to a movie or have fun with your friends.

If your not born into a rich family in mexico this is the way you live unless you do come to the united states!! Americans would be disgusted if they had to pump another persons gas like in the old days for 12 to 14 hours a day in the hot sun with maybe one or no break for 60 dollars a week!! Never would an american do that but my sister in law did that just to put food on the table for her daughters, to keep the electricity on, and to provide for her family. It makes me sick to know that people live off the government and what for that check every month just to feed their durg addiction and to have there kids fend for themsleves thats were kids become gang bangers, drug dealers, and murders.

Yes illegal immigrants cause some violence and break laws but are you seriously going to blame it all on them just to make the legal americans that do the same look as if they dont do anything wrong. I'm not saying that illegals should just come into the US and not have papers and that its ok but dont pass a law on people that are trying the hardest to make it for themselves when there are people in the US that are doing worse then they are.

The US is dealing with Iraq and terrorists when they are across waters....you send all the illegal mexicans back to mexico and I think that you are going to have more problems then the iraqis across the waters. HELLO Mexico is our neighbor there will be all kinds of terrorist attacks on us they are right there they dont have to cross waters to bombs us or attack us!!! I love being an american and having my freedom but telling me that if you catch me with an illegal in my truck or my house your going to arrest me and take me to jail or fine me a 1000 dollars i think that is stupid and your going to be arresting alot of people. and tax payers are going to be paying more money for housing and food for the illegals and people who are put in jail for knowing about illegals while they are in jail!!!

Oklahoma is going to be hit very hard when there is no one to build houses, mow their own lawn, be forced to work in situations that illagal immigrants will work in because AMERICANS WILL NOT!!! im not going to lie i have an illegal immigrant mow my lawn because i will and dont know how. I think its going to be a shock on oklahomans on how much they rely on those illegal immigrants!! im sorry if you dont agree with me but thats how i feel. im going to say one more thing and i heard on the news today that someone commented that maybe the US should make Mexico the 51st state so that they would pay taxes and the issues would be solved!!

thanks raelynn
Here I broke it up for you


I agree with many of your comments (except for making Mexico a 51st state, if anything there will be a North American Union).

Americans really don't know how good they have it and how bad most Mexicans have it. If they do know, they will tell you it is not Americas problem, but I think as neighbors it is our problem.

Congrats on dating someone who has opened your eyes and your heart to Mexico and Mexican way of life.

Did you know Mexico is also the #38 happiest country in the world, compared to United States at 150?
Countries Listed in HPI order (http://www.happyplanetindex.org/list.htm - broken link)

The mexican people are not mean, however, they are portrayed this way in our media as cruel monsters ripping the toys out of Americans hands. This is a huge mistake by American media and is going to possibly ruin relations with Mexico. All of the this late uprising against illegals will die off after the elections.

Great post and thanks for sharing.

Last edited by Mach50; 10-31-2007 at 12:45 AM..
 
Old 10-31-2007, 05:15 AM
 
1,266 posts, read 2,224,040 times
Reputation: 436
Their ILLEGAL. Cudos to the people of OK for creating law that enforces what's already on the books, ILLEGAL ALIENS are ILLEGAL.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,755 posts, read 23,226,054 times
Reputation: 6092
Thanks for the posting raelynn, and thanks Mach50 for making it more readable to me.

I understand your sentiments, but would like to point out a couple of things to you. If we allow folks to work illegally in the USA we drive down wages here for the lowest income workers, having devastating effects on their ability to earn decent wages over the long term. This makes their lives much more difficult than it need be in a fair system.

As I understand it, Mexico currently has a little over 100 million folks. Now, let's assume that the number of illegal immigrants in the USA is about 20 million, practically all of them being Mexican. If these 20 million folks would be in Mexico instead of the USA, couldn't they have potentially a significant role in changing the Mexican gov't for the better, in providing a better standard of living for all residents? Doesn't this make more sense over the long term, wouldn't both countries benefit more if the life of the average and the poorer Mexicans was improved over the next decade or so?
 
Old 10-31-2007, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,633,862 times
Reputation: 3785
I skimmed through raelynn's post: what she described could have been the conditions of the Irish and many other immigrants here in the USA 150 years ago.

Hell: my ancestors in Orange, Va. I can almost guarantee they lived just as you described-------they were sharecroppers in the 19th Century. Plus I am 99% sure that I have some 'Black' in my heritage (I am White) as well due to the demographics of 1880 Orange.

Cultures change-------Mexicans to their credit are taking responsibility for themselves as in limiting their family size from the 5.7 children per woman (1975) down to 2.4 kids which is barely above the replacement level of 2.1.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 08:16 AM
 
Location: el paso tx.
756 posts, read 1,756,860 times
Reputation: 400
raelynn:

you seem to have a lot of compassion for people, no-one can judge you for that. We are the most compassionate people in the world I believe that is what put us in this position.

I have never stated that illegals make crime go up. most of their crimes seem to against eachother(beside DUI that has went up greatly due to our illegals)
I live in a city of 150,000 maybe a little more so no big crime wave here.
There has been crimes commited against the illegals here by our lower white and black community(robbery)I think this may be cause in effect that I am seeing. Illegals come in take the lower wage jobs like our factorys and that leaves our lower wage community with out a job to pay bills, so what I see is you take our jobs we take your money(robbery)
The real victims are the lower black and whites community are here.they are legal citizens and I beleave are entitled to all jobs 1st. and foremost.

People keep saying americans do not want these jobs well only 25 years ago the black community ran these factorys, now they can not get a job there.

My grandfather who was a american indian was in the army for 15 years.when he got out he went to the ship yard in worked for 25years there till he retried. I do not think if he was alive to day that he would be able to get a job there which makes me sad and yes he worked 12-14 hour days 6 days a week he was very proud of his job.(when he was a small boy he worked the cotton fields)I mean the ship yard was a big deal for a old indian!!! his father I have been told was very proud his son who never worked in a cotton field again, but his sisters and brothers did they all died before I was born(hard life)he was a american and lived the true american dream.

I fear that men like my grandfather are being pussed down by illegals and are now being made to live in the shadows!!!
so for me the victims are not illegals they are the suspects and this crime along with our government.

So look at it from our side it is just has sad!!

Then on top of that I come home to see that there is a protest on tv. in CA.
with people waving mexican flags!!! in my country!!
I will repeat that they are waving there flags in my country!!! how dare them. there illegal they do not have rights here, everything we have given them is a privilege it is not a right, and they have so little respect for my country that they wave there flag in our face.if we are that bad go home!
I would never enter a country and wave my flag at them, what a lack of respect.

so this has been so long but need to vent!!

GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!
 
Old 10-31-2007, 09:37 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,619,457 times
Reputation: 2983
Good points. Raelynn---shows a lot of compassion, but perhaps is only lacking in perspective. I have deep family ties to the Hispanic people--this is really beside the point, however. This is not a "racial" issue, and it's dishonest to try and make it one.

The United States is really a unique country--its stated purpose, at the time it was founded, was to welcome the "poor"--supposedly without regard to race, ethnicity, etc. This was an enormously noble ideal, and we "wrote the book" on this. No other country was started this way, and MOST still don't worry about other nations' poor. We are pretty much alone in this.

I still think we're a pretty decent people. But we're being severely tested. It's not an exaggeration to say that at this point, somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% of the population of Mexico is no longer in Mexico--they're here. This fact alone is a tremendous "favor" to Mexico---few other nations would allow this. Yet still we are criticized and berated. And there are many illegals here from MANY countries. We get a steady stream of criticism, but very VERY little gratitude. There are very few examples around the world to compare with this. Most times, when one population "moves in" on another, violence and bloodshed are the result. We're not like that....and I hope we never are.

But is it possible that, even with our noble intentions, that this rate of illegal immigration is simply not sustainable? I think so. I have a challenge for you--just consider this, if you will: As I see it, we have two choices..pro-illegal, anti-illegal, or whatever, ALL of us, at this point, are faced with these two choices:

Either (1) We begin to "close the door"---now--on any further illegal immigration...(which, of COURSE, would be protested, and would impact the third-world poor, and cause much anger, etc.)---OR...

(2)We go on the way we are, at the rate we've been going, and continue to leave the door open to further millions to come here, as many as want to, for as long as they want... (which, some day, at some point, would simply overwhelm our ability to provide for them, OR for our own citizens, either)..

The great irony is that, by leaving the door open, at the rate we've been going for the past 2 decades, we will eventually succeed in changing the US from a free, capitalist, middle-class nation into a third-world nation. No more middle class--no more "trust" in the police or the laws---no more well-paying jobs---etc etc...because that's what a third-world society is.... People still LIVE, alright, but their life is harder, poorer, and less free than ours is. To some extent, our economy is already deteriorating. Wal-Mart is now one of our biggest employers---and those jobs aren't "middle-class" jobs, by any definition. We are on the way to losing our middle class.

And when that day arrives, the "poor millions" of the third-world will STILL suffer, because there will no longer be a "rich, free" USA for them to come to...period. And that's the irony--either we SLOW DOWN on taking care of the third-world's poor---or we LOSE OUR ABILITY altogether to do so, by becoming poor ourselves. Either way, they suffer...either they suffer now, or they suffer later.

Bottom line is, the USA is, and has been, a noble experiment. It has done more than any other nation to take care of the world's poor---and certainly Mexico wouldn't be able to send its poor here, if we weren't the decent country that we are. We have done much good, and we should realize that. But like anything else, there is a limit. We do not have an infinite capacity to absorb everyone who wants to come here---it's just not possible. If we don't get some control over this situation, we may no longer have to argue about it, because there won't be any "prosperous, free" USA at all. The choice will have been made for us.

PS One final "Irony" for you, Raelynn-You speak of the illegals' willingness to "do the hard stuff" Americans won't do. This is certainly true...I've seen it myself, worked with them often, and gladly paid them to do work for me that I couldn't get done any other way. But isn't it ironic that some of this "willingness" must be due to their precarious legal status? If all the illegals became legal tomorrow, how many would want to work "hard, long, and cheap"...If illegals became legal, wouldn't they soon begin ACTING legal?--wanting better pay, shorter hours, etc. Just somethinmg to think about....I guess we're ALL guilty.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,433,454 times
Reputation: 2147483647
I firmly believe that if Mexico recalled all of it's citizens back into Mexico and then asked for Aid, the US would gladly hand it to them.

But to illegally invade another country, for whatever reason, is wrong. As such, they're not looked on favorably.
 
Old 10-31-2007, 09:51 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,619,457 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
I firmly believe that if Mexico recalled all of it's citizens back into Mexico and then asked for Aid, the US would gladly hand it to them.

But to illegally invade another country, for whatever reason, is wrong. As such, they're not looked on favorably.
There's a great deal of truth in this---most people are compassionate---one has only to ask, politely. Most people will gladly help out a disaster victim...but NOBODY likes an aggressive panhandler.
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