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Old 04-29-2013, 02:34 PM
 
32,087 posts, read 14,815,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Does that justify for every immigrant that followed the legal channels? Why should we placed them higher over the legal immigrants and Americans. What respect have they shown for us?

Your argument holds no weight and is weak. These people voluntarily came here unlawful and could care less about the word respect, integrity, and honor.


There is no reason we should place them higher or even in the same light with legal immigrants.
How does granting amnesty to these illegals free up jobs for 23 million unemployed Americans? That's a good question also but apparently the pro-illegals don't care about that. And as for their claim that they are only doing jobs Americans won't do you and I both know that is nothing but hogwash.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,919 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Does that justify for every immigrant that followed the legal channels? Why should we placed them higher over the legal immigrants and Americans. What respect have they shown for us?

Your argument holds no weight and is weak. These people voluntarily came here unlawful and could care less about the word respect, integrity, and honor.


There is no reason we should place them higher or even in the same light with legal immigrants.
I agree! No need to treat one better than the other. Let's be welcoming to all equally.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,919 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
How does granting amnesty to these illegals free up jobs for 23 million unemployed Americans? That's a good question also but apparently the pro-illegals don't care about that. And as for their claim that they are only doing jobs Americans won't do you and I both know that is nothing but hogwash.
They are already working, its not like new people would enter the work force. Most of them are already in the workforce.

Also, if you think American workers won't be hurt with 11 million consumers disappearing overnight, you are just plain wrong. The economic shock would be crippling. Every business will lose 3% sales instantaneously, and people will lose jobs. So deporting everyone ain't an option either.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Springville, AL
154 posts, read 176,577 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
How does granting amnesty to these illegals free up jobs for 23 million unemployed Americans? That's a good question also but apparently the pro-illegals don't care about that. And as for their claim that they are only doing jobs Americans won't do you and I both know that is nothing but hogwash.
Remove the stupid austerity measure and allow jobs to growing more rapidly.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:46 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,144,193 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
But yea I don't think undocumented immigrants should be treated better than documented ones. I say let all of them come/stay. It's not like a ridiculously destabilizing amount of people want to come here. The legal line has 4 million people. We already have 11 million here. Add em together and let them in. Problem solved. People are an asset, not a liability. We had 3 million people in 1776, we were poor. We have 300 million now, and we're the richest in the world. Like I said, people are an asset. More Americans the merrier.
America now has over 300 million people. Every country has its capacity limits on jobs, natural resources etc... Eventually we will be fighting for a limited # of resources that exist in this country & planet.

We don't need more problems. As a reminder these people are not Americans.


Quote:
Ideally, nothing. But on a case by case basis, we should see who stands to lose the most. A legal immigrant who is outside of the country doesn't have their whole life set up here. They probably don't have family or a job here.
Illegals are not people Americans want or need. They steal, cheat, lie & disrespect America, its people & culture.

On the other hand legal immigrants show honesty, respect, and embrace our culture.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:47 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,144,193 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
They are already working, its not like new people would enter the work force. Most of them are already in the workforce.

Also, if you think American workers won't be hurt with 11 million consumers disappearing overnight, you are just plain wrong. The economic shock would be crippling. Every business will lose 3% sales instantaneously, and people will lose jobs. So deporting everyone ain't an option either.
Another reason to deport them....actually another 4-5reasons
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,649 posts, read 31,388,760 times
Reputation: 26742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
When the civil rights leaders were fighting for their freedom, the anti-communists would have been similarly appalled at any comparisons between them and George Washington and Black American slaves.
Here's one important distinction you're failing to make between black Americans and illegals.

Black Americans, like Rosa Parks, are here by and large because their ancestors were brought here in chains by white Europeans. Fact. They wouldn't be here if we did not purchase them in Africa and bring them here, chained and terrified, in the filthy, disease-ridden bowels of slave ships.

It is a dark stain on this country's history.

But for the actions of the slave traders, they wouldn't be here. They broke no laws coming here. Jim Crow laws were a hideous embarrassment and these Americans deserved every single civil right that everyone else took for granted. At. A. Bare. Minimum.

They were born here. They had no choice in the matter. Yet they were treated like second-class citizens not because of any actions they took or laws they broke, but the color of their skin. That is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Illegals, on the other hand, are treated like 'second class citizens' because they are illegal lawbreakers. You are not allowed to overstay a visa here. You are not allowed to enter without inspection by sneaking over a border fence. It is not permitted under the laws of this country.

THAT is the difference.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,919 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
America now has over 300 million people. Every country has its capacity limits on jobs, natural resources etc... Eventually we will be fighting for a limited # of resources that exist in this country & planet.
This is true. But we are no where near our carrying capacity. Not by a long shot. We have land, and natural resources.

Jobs are dynamic, more people = more jobs. This has always been the case, ask the baby boomers. Massive increases in population after ww2 didn't create long term structural unemployment, because jobs grew with the population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Illegals are not people Americans want or need. They steal, cheat, lie & disrespect America, its people & culture.

On the other hand legal immigrants show honesty, respect, and embrace our culture.
Haha, now you are just being silly. I wish our immigration laws worked as a personality detector test but they don't. The laws are so broken that even upstanding Americans who have to bring their spouse over legally will tear their hair out in frustration and pay lawyers thousands to do the paperwork.

Do you know a legal immigrant can become an illegal immigrant simply for failing to timely file certain paperwork while they are in the USA? You don't really believe that makes them thieves, cheats, liars and disrepectful of America, do you?

I think you are talking about laws you have never had to put up with, so you are assuming a whole heck of a lot about the laws and who these people are.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,919 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Here's one important distinction you're failing to make between black Americans and illegals.

Black Americans, like Rosa Parks, are here by and large because their ancestors were brought here in chains by white Europeans. Fact. They wouldn't be here if we did not purchase them in Africa and bring them here, chained and terrified, in the filthy, disease-ridden bowels of slave ships.

It is a dark stain on this country's history.

But for the actions of the slave traders, they wouldn't be here. They broke no laws coming here. Jim Crow laws were a hideous embarrassment and these Americans deserved every single civil right that everyone else took for granted. At. A. Bare. Minimum.

They were born here. They had no choice in the matter. Yet they were treated like second-class citizens not because of any actions they took or laws they broke, but the color of their skin. That is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Illegals, on the other hand, are treated like 'second class citizens' because they are illegal lawbreakers. You are not allowed to overstay a visa here. You are not allowed to enter without inspection by sneaking over a border fence. It is not permitted under the laws of this country.

THAT is the difference.
I'll concede that difference is true for most "illegal" immigrants. But what about the dreamers? Ie, the children who were brought here before their brains could possibly comprehend what the hell was happening much less stop it?

I would offer this distinction though, it's true that "illegal" immigrants had some choice in the matter. But there are also things outside their control. Many have family in America which they can't take back with them. They have other tangible connections to America. Making them leave their family behind is just as coercive as forcing people to abandon their county to come here. It's the exact thing in reverse, it's coercive migration.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:03 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,649 posts, read 31,388,760 times
Reputation: 26742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
I'll concede that difference is true for most "illegal" immigrants. But what about the dreamers? Ie, the children who were brought here before their brains could possibly comprehend what the hell was happening much less stop it?

I would offer this distinction though, it's true that "illegal" immigrants had some choice in the matter. But there are also things outside their control. Many have family in America which they can't take back with them. They have other tangible connections to America. Making them leave their family behind is just as coercive as forcing people to abandon their county to come here. It's the exact thing in reverse, it's coercive migration.

If you have a minor child here you can take them back with you. Also, most countries will grant citizenship to the children of its nationals, regardless of where they were born, if they would be otherwise stateless.

Dreamies have a choice; when they turn 18 they can leave, then re-enter on a student visa and pay foreign student tuition. Or they can stay in their country of origin. The sins of their parents are not our problem. There are plenty of American children devastated by the mistakes their parents make and we don't lift a finger to help them.
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