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Old 04-29-2013, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,279 times
Reputation: 15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
If you have a minor child here you can take them back with you. Also, most countries will grant citizenship to the children of its nationals, regardless of where they were born, if they would be otherwise stateless.

Dreamies have a choice; when they turn 18 they can leave, then re-enter on a student visa and pay foreign student tuition. Or they can stay in their country of origin. The sins of their parents are not our problem. There are plenty of American children devastated by the mistakes their parents make and we don't lift a finger to help them.
They are effectively stateless, you can't just show up at an embassy and ask to be given citizenship. They ask for a birth certificate, and your parents identities. Even if you assume those are available (and they aren't always available), what if the dreamers country of origin is hostile to the US or doesn't maintain diplomatic relations (ie no embassy)? You think the Iranian embassy would willy nilly issue passports to Iranian looking dreamers if they claim they were brought to America from Iran as a kid?

And if they do get a passport, then what? You know full well first thing that's gonna happen to them Iran. They get put on a show trial, if they are lucky. That's what they do to American sounding people no matter how much they insist they are true Iranians.

And at your "come back on a student visa" thing I'm just gonna drop it since you obviously don't know how US immigration law works. If they have been in the country illegal all those years they will be barred for 10 years from re-entry. So the earliest they could do your student visa fix is when they are 28. And you know what the US embassy will say, oh lookie here, you used to be an illegal, no entry for you, sorry.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:15 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,161,722 times
Reputation: 26668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
They are effectively stateless, you can't just show up at an embassy and ask to be given citizenship. They ask for a birth certificate, and your parents identities. Even if you assume those are available (and they aren't always available), what if the dreamers country of origin is hostile to the US or doesn't maintain diplomatic relations (ie no embassy)? You think the Iranian embassy would willy nilly issue passports to Iranian looking dreamers if they claim they were brought to America from Iran as a kid?
Not my problem.

Quote:
And if they do get a passport, then what? You know full well first thing that's gonna happen to them Iran. They get put on a show trial, if they are lucky. That's what they do to American sounding people no matter how much they insist they are true Iranians.
Red herring.

Quote:
And at your "come back on a student visa" thing I'm just gonna drop it since you obviously don't know how US immigration law works. If they have been in the country illegal all those years they will be barred for 10 years from re-entry. So the earliest they could do your student visa fix is when they are 28. And you know what the US embassy will say, oh lookie here, you used to be an illegal, no entry for you, sorry.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Time spent here illegally doesn't count until six months after you turn 18. You are not penalized for time spent here illegally as a minor.

I sponsored my now ex-husband for a green card, so...been there done that sweetie!
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:18 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,100,483 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
This is true. But we are no where near our carrying capacity. Not by a long shot. We have land, and natural resources.

Jobs are dynamic, more people = more jobs. This has always been the case, ask the baby boomers. Massive increases in population after ww2 didn't create long term structural unemployment, because jobs grew with the population.



Haha, now you are just being silly. I wish our immigration laws worked as a personality detector test but they don't. The laws are so broken that even upstanding Americans who have to bring their spouse over legally will tear their hair out in frustration and pay lawyers thousands to do the paperwork.

Do you know a legal immigrant can become an illegal immigrant simply for failing to timely file certain paperwork while they are in the USA? You don't really believe that makes them thieves, cheats, liars and disrepectful of America, do you?

I think you are talking about laws you have never had to put up with, so you are assuming a whole heck of a lot about the laws and who these people are.
It doesn't matter if we are near capacity or not. That doesn't put up a welcome sign.

Laws are laws for a reason. You seem stuck on getting around & trying to break them.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,279 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Not my problem.
This really sums it up doesn't it. Why even bother with all the other arguments when this explains so succinctly exactly why this problem exists in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Red herring.
To you maybe, to someone in that situation, a nightmare.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Red herring.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Time spent here illegally doesn't count until six months after you turn 18. You are not penalized for time spent here illegally as a minor.

I sponsored my now ex-husband for a green card, so...been there done that sweetie!
Oh then we better hope no unfortunate soul finds out too late that they are illegal. BigDGeek won't care, they're on their own.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,279 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
It doesn't matter if we are near capacity or not. That doesn't put up a welcome sign.
I think we should have a welcome sign, we are a nation thats almost always had that sign. It's our national heritage after all, as a nation of immigrants. Taking the sign off, when we aren't near capacity, doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Laws are laws for a reason. You seem stuck on getting around & trying to break them.
Laws are laws for a reason? Jim Crow laws were laws too. That's the whole point of my original post, there have been many bad laws. To throw your hands up and say it's the law isn't enough.

I wish the law would say let them in. Then you would be the one arguing against the law and I'd be arguing for it. Then I could say, the law is the law!
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:28 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
I agree! No need to treat one better than the other. Let's be welcoming to all equally.
What makes the Hispanic illegals so special? Why are they allowed more immigration than any other? I'm sure many poor people in Sudan would like to walk across but they can't.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:28 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,161,722 times
Reputation: 26668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
This really sums it up doesn't it. Why even bother with all the other arguments when this explains so succinctly exactly why this problem exists in the first place.

To you maybe, to someone in that situation, a nightmare.
Not my problem. They're the victims of their parents' bad decisions, not mine. There are other children in this country who are horribly victimized and traumatized by their parents' bad decisions, but we don't do anything to help them. Why should we hand the (illegal) children of illegals college educations and passports on a silver platter?

Quote:
Oh then we better hope no unfortunate soul finds out too late that they are illegal. BigDGeek won't care, they're on their own.
Pretty much. They should blame their parents, not us.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:28 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8366
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Another reason to deport them....actually another 4-5reasons
I would just like to add that the 11 million deported illegals would free up jobs for many of the 23 million unemployed Americans and they in turn would be contributing to our economy so it would be a wash and no loss. In fact the American worker would probably be paid more rather than cheap, illegal wages and that would increase our tax coffers and buying ability.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:31 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8366
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
It doesn't matter if we are near capacity or not. That doesn't put up a welcome sign.

Laws are laws for a reason. You seem stuck on getting around & trying to break them.
Experts say that ideally our population should be around 200 million. We are over 100 million over our carrying capacity now. We would be better off with a smaller economy to fit a smaller population.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,279 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I would just like to add that the 11 million deported illegals would free up jobs for many of the 23 million unemployed Americans and they in turn would be contributing to our economy so it would be a wash and no loss. In fact the American worker would probably be paid more rather than cheap, illegal wages and that would increase our tax coffers and buying ability.
Not counting the fact that it costs $6000 to deport a single alien, which runs the taxpayer tab of removing all way, way into billions. You do realize that these people aren't just workers, but also consumers and customers, the loss of which will hurt the US economy given 70% of it is consumer spending. Also, what about those jobs that Americans don't do when given the opportunity to. We've seen the rotting crops on the news, that's one job Americans just don't do. Your assertion just doesn't have iron ring of truth to it.
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