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Old 05-03-2013, 09:34 PM
 
Location: texas
9,138 posts, read 6,485,302 times
Reputation: 2372

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Driving is not a right. It is a privilege.
A priviledge which can be granted by the state.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:38 PM
 
31,516 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
A priviledge which can be granted by the state.
But shouldn't be. Afterall, we keep being told that states can't enforce immigration law but it is the feds job instead but I guess it is ok for states to give them the priviledge of driving on our roads even though they are in our country illegally? I guess the feds only sue the states if they make illegal immigrant's lives uncomfortable but if they grant them priviledges it is ok?
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:44 PM
 
Location: texas
9,138 posts, read 6,485,302 times
Reputation: 2372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I guess that means I am obligated to let them remain in my house also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Gee, let's start with they should be deported instead. Since they are here in violation of our laws we should hand them driver's licenses? It's not a good thing because it helps enable them to remaiin here for one thing.
Firstly, Oregon does not have the authority to deport.

Secondly deportation is not the issue in this provision; providing access for unlawful residents of Oregon to apply for a Driver's Card is.

Lastly and most importantly, If disagree with the people's of Oregon's representatives introducing this legislation...you can move there and make you voice count.
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:11 AM
 
31,516 posts, read 14,580,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
Firstly, Oregon does not have the authority to deport.

Secondly deportation is not the issue in this provision; providing access for unlawful residents of Oregon to apply for a Driver's Card is.

Lastly and most importantly, If disagree with the people's of Oregon's representatives introducing this legislation...you can move there and make you voice count.
i

Who said Oregon or any of our states have the right to deport people? Check out Arizona's sb1070 law there is nothing in it about being able to deport.

I don't have to move anywhere to disagree with a policy that affects the national interest. As more states pander to illegal immigrants to make their lives easier here we as a nation will be impacted even more.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
i

Who said Oregon or any of our states have the right to deport people? Check out Arizona's sb1070 law there is nothing in it about being able to deport.

I don't have to move anywhere to disagree with a policy that affects the national interest. As more states pander to illegal immigrants to make their lives easier here we as a nation will be impacted even more.
Right because someone being able to drive just kills all us law abiding citizens. Your crocodile tears for the citizen are a sham. You want to punish these people because of your extreme dislike of them, not some attachment to the rest of us.
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Old 05-04-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 7,979,077 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I'm saying if they able to apply, be tested (vision, driving tests, etc.), and are required to have insurance, how is that not a good thing?...
Because they are known breakers of the law. Having shown a disposition to break the law at their desire in a prior situation, do you actuallt think they would not be just as willing to do it again if they saw a benefit to themselves?

Are you really that biased?
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Old 05-04-2013, 03:59 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 7,979,077 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubi Panis View Post
Right because someone being able to drive just kills all us law abiding citizens. Your crocodile tears for the citizen are a sham. You want to punish these people because of your extreme dislike of them, not some attachment to the rest of us.
Your extreme bias in favor of illegals and continued allegations about how bad our laws are when they come into play when forcing illegals to comply with those laws.

The actual sham is you claiming to be oh so inclusive when it is plain that your entire agenda is to help lawbreakers continue their misdeeds while you make excuses for them.
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Old 05-04-2013, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Your extreme bias in favor of illegals and continued allegations about how bad our laws are when they come into play when forcing illegals to comply with those laws.
Guilty as charged. I stand for civil rights for "illegals." I don't think they should be made second class non-citizens due to civil infractions.

Our laws are bad. There is near universal agreement that our immigration system is broken.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
The actual sham is you claiming to be oh so inclusive when it is plain that your entire agenda is to help lawbreakers continue their misdeeds while you make excuses for them.
Not at all. I want them to get right with the law in a fair and compassionate way. I'm all for civil penalties like fines and probationary conditions like mandating employment and English and civic lessons. I'm certainly not in favor of having a race police that goes looking for "Mexican-looking" people to check their papers as some of the other threads here suggest. That would be outrageous, unconstitutional and contrary to our values and laws.

I'm not in favor of making their lives miserable and then hope that makes them leave. It hasn't worked and it's unnecessarily punitive, and again, grossly contrary to the idea of a free and open society.

We can both agree that we dislike illegal immigration. But only one of us dislikes illegal immigrants.
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Old 05-04-2013, 04:18 PM
 
31,516 posts, read 14,580,770 times
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I dislike all lawbreakers citizen and "immigrant" alike. Is that a bad thing?
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Old 05-04-2013, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
116 posts, read 91,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I dislike all lawbreakers citizen and "immigrant" alike. Is that a bad thing?
I'd argue it is, glory. Do you also dislike the Syrian rebels fighting for their freedom against their government? Now I know it's an extreme example, but you did use the word "all." How about North Koreans who privately admit to each other their dissatisfaction with their government, a crime which is very severely punished in North Korea. Again, an extreme example, but it falls under "all lawbreakers."

The law is a great thing, it brings order and justice to society. But despite our best intentions, some laws lead to results which fall short of these ideals. The 11 million should be blamed for their part, but it wouldn't be fair to say we weren't complicit too.

For one, we rely on their labor for our food being cheap, which it wouldn't be if we were paying American farm workers who pick the crops a lawful wage with expensive OSHA compliance. The housing boom which saw many Americans get rich, couldn't have happened without unlawfully cheap labor provided by the illegal immigrants in the construction industry.

In a way, we created a dispensable worker. Here when the economy is good and we need them, and scapegoated and deported when we don't. We take their labor, but we don't give them our rights, our labor law protections, and our services.

What I'm saying is it's a two way street, and in a way, everyone including the government, businesses, consumers, and immigrants have been complicit.

So going forward, we have to realize our part in this mess. We create a legal agricultural worker program so we can bring as many workers as needed to cover future labor shortages. We keep them legal and afford them same protections we have. We swallow the higher cost of food and rent due to the fair wages paid to these people. And once this fair system has been implemented, there is no excuse to break it. We can get harsh with people who try to go around this system.

As for the past entrants, we realize that many have been exploited due to their status. In dealing with them, we punish them, but not excessively.
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