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Old 11-01-2007, 12:26 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,615 posts, read 11,696,866 times
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I'm personally experienced censorship regarding the illegal alien debate and I don't understand what seems to be official unspoken rules about never criticizing illegal immigration or vilifying illegals.

The Fox show 24, on its official website has a forum where fans can write their own seasons and in my free time I've written 3. People have featured all sorts of villains in their seasons and in my first two seasons the enemeis have included Islamic terrorists, IRA leftovers from Northern Ireland, Russian mercenaries, and Chinese intelligence agents and American socialists. They seem to tolerate all levels of violence and non-PC stuff, even beyond Hollywood. The site and readers actually loved one of my stories that includes a plotline where Palestinian terrorists storm an Israeli school and take it hostage. There was also a scene where US agents torture an Iranian spy by dragging him behind a car and later killing him. It was also presented so that because the man is an enemy agent, his torture and killing was something that he had coming.

But when I wrote my third season it got deleted because I chose the villaisn nobody had ever written about: illegal aliens. This season actually had less violence and gore than the others so the only reason was because my plot was too controversial.

The premise is that in the near future, the gov't failed to control illegal immigration and Los Angeles has become a tinderbox like Lebanon or Bosnia. The main villians are illegal alien secessionsts who begin a terrorist campaign and armed insurrection in Los Angeles to separate the Southwest states from the US and rejoin it with Mexico. The season begins when a domestic right-wing terrorist group seizes the Mexican consulate in LA to demand the extradition of a Mexican druglord (whose illegal alien gang members killed dozens of people at a gas station shootout), and a Hispanic secessionst group called the Hijos de Aztlan begin a retaliatory campaign of terror that brings LA to full-scale civil war.

I also included leftist nationalists from within Mexico as aiding them and in the second half of my season, terrorists cripple the US with a strike on a military facility and Mexico sends an invasion force across the border. I also included dialoague where main characters lament how their communitie have changed because of illegals and the concept of feelign like foreigners and outsiders in their own country, watching their neighborhoods overrun by illegal aliens, etc.

The ultimate villain was a Mexican general who takes power in a Chinese-engineered coup and got the illegals to rise up against America to aid his invasion of the US. There was mentioning of illegals rampaging through non-Mexican parts of LA and massacring all non-Mexicans they come across. In the end Jack Bauer and his family are holed up in their gated community while hordes of illegal aliens and Mexican soldiers attack them.

Now 24 is the least liberal show there is and the mods on the site are very tolerant about fanfic subject matters. It was okay to feature Middle Eastern, Irish, Russian, and Chinese villains doing evil things but somehow it was not okay to feature Mexican villains doing the same things. And yes, other stories I'v'e written have featured British and French Muslims rampaging around and waging jihad against their adopted homelands, including a plot by British Muslims to attack the 2012 Olympics in London. This is very tellign since Hollywood has been reluctant to feature Islamic villains in the post 9-11 world the way the 80s were filled movies where Americans kicked Soviet butt.

But I really don't understand why it's not acceptable to write a story where America goes against a Mexican secessionst movement (and its specifically a Mexican secssionst movement, not a Hispanic secessionst movement). I also made it clear that the evil was limited to illegals and anchor babies and featured legal Mexican Americans who are loyal to the US and some Mexicans within Mexico who are against the leftists.

The truth is that the reconquista movement is real and many Mexicans and Mexican Americans believe that the Southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico and that illegal immigrants have an innate right to settle there. Mexicans in the United States are not assimilating into American culture and many identify themselves more as Mexicans than Americans. Many are radicalized by the illegal alien debate. It is also true that there is a frigtening trend across Latin America with the rise of leftist regimes like Venezuela, Nicaragua, Bolivia, and Brazil. Like illegal immigration, leftism and socialism is a threat to the American way of life.

By the year 2020, I don't think its beyond reality for Mexican secessionist groups to be a threat, especially since illegals are pouring in everyday and Mexicans already make up more than half the population in Southern California. There is no guarantee they will not try to secede or launch an insurgency like the people in Palestine, Chechnya, Bosnia or Lebanon.
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Old 11-01-2007, 04:52 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,321,449 times
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imho this kind of threads only pollute the dialogue we are having here.

it's true that there might be some loonies out there with crazy ideas, but I doubt they represent a threat or that their views reflect the majority.

most of us, Mexican citizens who keep working really hard everyday to clean the house only want our country to be a modern, democratic and equalitarian society, we also want to live in peace with our neighboors and friends from the United States of America, people who are immigrating illegally should try to give a shot to the more prosperous states or cities in Mexico and try to improve their conditions legally without having to be hiding, as many Mexicans have done before.

Past is Past, Present is Present, we can't build the future thinking in the Past.

Things happen for a reason and instead of running around in circles of complete futility we should accept and move on.

Last edited by Travelling fella; 11-01-2007 at 05:40 AM..
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,725,996 times
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One huge thing going against a successful 'reconquista' movement is simple demographics--------the birthrate in Mexico is only 2.4 children per woman (replacement level is 2.1).

What is more plausible IMHO is that Mexico may fracture along socio-economic lines instead. The northern states like Nuevo Leon, etc. are not only much wealthier than Chiapas, etc. but the 'racial' factor may come into play there as well. Most of the trurly dark skinned indigenous Latinos are from southern Mexico.
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:47 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,321,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One huge thing going against a successful 'reconquista' movement is simple demographics--------the birthrate in Mexico is only 2.4 children per woman (replacement level is 2.1).

What is more plausible IMHO is that Mexico may fracture along socio-economic lines instead. The northern states like Nuevo Leon, etc. are not only much wealthier than Chiapas, etc. but the 'racial' factor may come into play there as well. Most of the trurly dark skinned indigenous Latinos are from southern Mexico.
Well, actually I see that is more probable that Central america will become more and more integrated to Mexico it's already happening, with Cafta and the Plan Puebla - Panama, Oaxaca and Guerrero are full of problems yet, but things look brighter in Chiapas now, I guess that's why they say that peace comes after the storm
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:03 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,725,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
imho this kind of threads only pollute the dialogue we are having here.
IMO, the OP asked a legitimate question- why is it acceptable to portray members of other ethnic groups as terrorists in a fictional TV setting, but not illegal aliens? If his proposed story had instead contained a white Timothy McVeigh type as the villian, I doubt it would have been banned. Possibly they would have used it on the show.

Quote:
it's true that there might be some loonies out there with crazy ideas, but I doubt they represent a threat or that their views reflect the majority.
In general, loonies with crazy ideas do present a threat. This is why law enforcement tries to keep track of them.

Quote:
most of us, Mexican citizens who keep working really hard everyday to clean the house only want our country to be a modern, democratic and equalitarian society, we also want to live in peace with our neighboors and friends from the United States of America, people who are immigrating illegally should try to give a shot to the more prosperous states or cities in Mexico and try to improve their conditions legally without having to be hiding, as many Mexicans have done before.

Past is Past, Present is Present, we can't build the future thinking in the Past.
If the past is the past and we should move on, why do so many adhere to 'the gringo stole our land' line of thought. As I understand, this is even taught in Mexican schools.

Quote:
Things happen for a reason and instead of running around in circles of complete futility we should accept and move on.
Should accept what?
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:11 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,321,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
IMO, the OP asked a legitimate question- why is it acceptable to portray members of other ethnic groups as terrorists in a fictional TV setting, but not illegal aliens? If his proposed story had instead contained a white Timothy McVeigh type as the villian, I doubt it would have been banned. Possibly they would have used it on the show.
Well you have a point andrea

Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
In general, loonies with crazy ideas do present a threat. This is why law enforcement tries to keep track of them.
on a second thought you are right, people who pose a danger to society and themselves should be kept where they can't harm themselves or others until they mend their ways, people who want to be a part of the American dream (or Mexican) should be accepted and helped to become a part of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
If the past is the past and we should move on, why do so many adhere to 'the gringo stole our land' line of thought. As I understand, this is even taught in Mexican schools.
Well I was raised as a Mexican and I studied in Mexican schools, what they teach us is that in those times those territories were extremely underpopulated, Mexican government was centralized and there weren't many services available so few people wanted to go there, even with government incentives, those territories were near the United States of America who was an emerging nation at that time and a lot of immigrants came to settle those lands, this was ok for awhile until we fall prey of a stupid and egotistic dictator Santa Anna whose actions and mistakes led him to loose those territories because people started to rebel on his stupid and petty laws like the window tax (a tax charged by every window you had in your house) in Mexico we consider Santa Anna a villian and the worst traitor in Mexican history schools teach us that he is the one to blame.



Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Should accept what?
That we are living in the XXI century, the globalization age where we either learn how to work together and swim or we sink, that we can help each other become better and learn from our experiences, that God was so clever as to give every nation an special gift so we could learn either the easy or the hard way to work together.

And most importantly, that we can be friends and brothers

Come on, hold your hands all together pray with me, with the deepest devotion of your soul.
Pax eterna, let there be light, make it happen!

Peace, Love, Light and Harmony

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Old 11-01-2007, 08:45 PM
 
376 posts, read 613,315 times
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ArizonaBear;
Most of the trurly dark skinned indigenous Latinos are from southern Mexico.

I have always thought the dark skinned indigenous people of Southern Mexico are either or belong to more of a Mayan or Aztec ancestry. I find it odd that they many indigenous people from Mexico, Central, and South America are Labeled as Latinos or Latinas. I thought the word Latin and the language is more closely connected to European ancestry. Help me out ArizonaBear
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Old 11-01-2007, 08:49 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,175,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
ArizonaBear;
Most of the trurly dark skinned indigenous Latinos are from southern Mexico.

I have always thought the dark skinned indigenous people of Southern Mexico are either or belong to more of a Mayan or Aztec ancestry. I find it odd that they many indigenous people from Mexico, Central, and South America are Labeled as Latinos or Latinas. I thought the word Latin and the language is more closely connected to European ancestry. Help me out ArizonaBear
At one point or another the indigenous people made babies with the Spaniards. The reason why they are still dark is because there was not enough European blood to go around hence the reason why a lot remained dark. Look at northern parts of Mexico, there are a lot of light complexioned people there. I see chinese people in Guadalajara!
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:01 PM
 
376 posts, read 613,315 times
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That doesn’t really answer my question of why the indigenous people are called Latinos or Latinas…
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:09 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,175,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
That doesn’t really answer my question of why the indigenous people are called Latinos or Latinas…
Well your question doesn't really have an answer. Why are the light complexioned people called Latinos as well? Why do they have to be tan in order to be Latino?
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