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Old 05-09-2013, 08:24 AM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
"Conservatives" aren't the only persons not completely happy with the proposals for immigration reform. One can have "liberal" views on subjects and "conservate" views on others. I suspect a majority of Americans will describe themselves, overall, as "moderate." And, we know that a majority of Americans ... of all "stripes" support reform of our immigration policies and a path to legalization/citizenship for the estimated 6 million Mexicans in the country and 5 million persons from other countries who are here improperly as well.

Not true as I said before. Many may want reform of our legal immigration policies but there is no reform being proposed for illegals in the new law. Path to citizenship least of all is what most Americans want. But as I said before, you believe your polls and I will believe mine. Not only that but from talking with many Americans about this hardly any I know of want this. It is true that the objection isn't only from conservatives and I am glad to hear you admit that. Far too many in this forum and other pro-illegals try to make it a party line thing when it isn't.

 
Old 05-09-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,137 posts, read 10,568,819 times
Reputation: 9294
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
"Conservatives" aren't the only persons not completely happy with the proposals for immigration reform. One can have "liberal" views on subjects and "conservate" views on others. I suspect a majority of Americans will describe themselves, overall, as "moderate." And, we know that a majority of Americans ... of all "stripes" support reform of our immigration policies and a path to legalization/citizenship for the estimated 6 million Mexicans in the country and 5 million persons from other countries who are here improperly as well.
What is it with you? Now they are not illegal; they are just “improperly” in our country? Over and over again I have heard supporters of amnesty tone down the illegal acts. Also; you love to group everybody together. For the 11 million (possibly 33 million) you do not want to check their criminal background – all look exactly alike to you. You do not care if they committed crimes in their native countries. Or; if they are guilty of felonies in our Country. There is no such thing as identity theft, a cartel, MS13, or illegal drugs – just one big happy face of hard working people that deserve our lifestyle and our money.

E-Verify could help eliminate the whole problem. Especially if we forced our employers to use the system and held them accountable if they did not. For a very long time the Leader of the House has been sitting on that legislation. Even if it did move through the congress; it would probably be watered down and ineffective. By the way; it is Republican (conservative) leadership that is holding up that process – not the Democratic (liberal) leadership.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 6,990,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Not true as I said before. Many may want reform of our legal immigration policies but there is no reform being proposed for illegals in the new law.
Keep telling yourself that. Better yet, stand in front of a mirror and repeat the statement. Then you'll have an audience that'll believe it. You may be one of the very few people who aren't deaf, dumb and blind who don't understand what's being proposed in the U.S. Senate.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 09:12 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,125,167 times
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Are anti-immigration and pro law and order the same thing? I am pro law and order. If you are not here legally, you need to go.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 10:56 AM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
Keep telling yourself that. Better yet, stand in front of a mirror and repeat the statement. Then you'll have an audience that'll believe it. You may be one of the very few people who aren't deaf, dumb and blind who don't understand what's being proposed in the U.S. Senate.
Are you denying that what is in it will legalize millions of illegal immigrants? That is my objection. Anything else in it doesn't matter to me as long as that part remains. I have a lot bigger audience than you think I do. It is just wishful thinking on your part.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
405 posts, read 358,190 times
Reputation: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
we know that a majority of Americans ... of all "stripes" support reform of our immigration policies and a path to legalization/citizenship for the estimated 6 million Mexicans in the country and 5 million persons from other countries who are here improperly as well.
Actually we don't know that. The "polls" are biased depending on how the questions are phrased and to whom they are presented. And that number of illegals you cite is an estimate as you say. Many believe the number is much, much higher, particularly on the Mexican end. And that pool is a segregated low-skilled, low-educated, low-performing group, and is quickly growing into a huge permanent underclass that is going to do our nation no favors.

I only hope that if amnesty does pass, the American public makes all of those responsible for it pay for it at the polls. That's about all I can say now.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 12:06 PM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 6,990,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
What is it with you? Now they are not illegal; they are just “improperly” in our country?
Yes. all "illegal." I was trying to distinguish between the millions who are still in the USA after having overstayed the terms of the visas they had previously received ... such as students, and others.

Quote:
Over and over again I have heard supporters of amnesty tone down the illegal acts.
"Amnesty" is a figment of your imagination. No such proposals have been introduced into the U.S. Senate where the reform legislation is being discussed.

Quote:
Also; you love to group everybody together. For the 11 million (possibly 33 million) you do not want to check their criminal background – all look exactly alike to you. You do not care if they committed crimes in their native countries. Or; if they are guilty of felonies in our Country. There is no such thing as identity theft, a cartel, MS13, or illegal drugs – just one big happy face of hard working people that deserve our lifestyle and our money.
Unless you can point to where I said the things you've falsely accused me of saying, you're a liar. Because I've never said such things.

Quote:
E-Verify could help eliminate the whole problem. Especially if we forced our employers to use the system and held them accountable if they did not
If you'd pay attention to the discussions on this particular forum you would understand that I have been the loudest voice for strict/absolute enforcement of e-verify and the imposition of the harshest penalties possible - including the shut-down and forcing out of business of employers who are providing economic support to the illegal aliens. Howvever it's been the RWNJs who minimize the importance of e-verify.

Quote:
For a very long time the Leader of the House has been sitting on that legislation. Even if it did move through the congress; it would probably be watered down and ineffective. By the way; it is Republican (conservative) leadership that is holding up that process – not the Democratic (liberal) leadership.
The Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives needs to spend less time on the tanning bed and more paying attention to the business of the nation. On that we can agree.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 01:15 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,143,716 times
Reputation: 26656
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
Here are two beliefs often held by conservatives. I just had a light bulb moment and realized that they're not in any way compatible:

"Immigration (legal or not) is bad because it takes jobs from Americans."
&&&
"If people are unhappy with their current economic situation, they should work to change it instead of demanding policies to get help from the government."



Thoughts?
I'm not a conservative.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,137 posts, read 10,568,819 times
Reputation: 9294
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
Yes. all "illegal." I was trying to distinguish between the millions who are still in the USA after having overstayed the terms of the visas they had previously received ... such as students, and others.
Sorry gomexico. The hairs on the back of my neck stand up if I hear people trying to tone down the term “illegal”. That is all we get in the media today. Nobody wants to call it what it is or hold them responsible. When you used the word “improperly” I could not really see past that word – my bells and whistles were going off!
 
Old 05-10-2013, 01:56 PM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 6,990,802 times
Reputation: 3487
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Sorry gomexico. The hairs on the back of my neck stand up if I hear people trying to tone down the term “illegal”. That is all we get in the media today. Nobody wants to call it what it is or hold them responsible. When you used the word “improperly” I could not really see past that word – my bells and whistles were going off!
No harm, no foul.
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