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Old 05-14-2013, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
That's because they actually think those things will be followered through on when they will not. Many Americans are clueless as to the huge costs of this law in so many ways. Many think they are only doing jobs Americans won't do. Poll Americans who are actually informed on this issue and see what the results would be rather than the clueless, bleeding hearts and ethnocentrics many of whom I am sure respond to polls.
So if it is random calls placed by the polling organization, how would a margin of error be drastically off from their sampling? This poll (which you initially posted as supporting your view) lists the demographics at the end, and it appears to be a pretty good average of the American public. Read it.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:58 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,099,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
From this poll, question asked;

"Would you favor or oppose providing a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants in the U.S. if they met certain requirements, like paying fines and back taxes, passing criminal background checks and learning English?"
Sounds like a question even a 2 year old would understand, right? 83 percent of those polled answered yes.
So most Americans are in favor of loosing their job to illegals?
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 6,992,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So if it is random calls placed by the polling organization, how would a margin of error be drastically off from their sampling? This poll (which you initially posted as supporting your view) lists the demographics at the end, and it appears to be a pretty good average of the American public. Read it.
Please, let's not talk about facts. Facts can be confusing.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
405 posts, read 358,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But you trumpet them when you think they support your stance:



You really need to read this poll. I favor the NYT/CBS ones, because they record the answers long-term, tend to phrase the questions the same way over time, and show demographic data at the end.
I actually find polls useless, on either end. Polls are a red herring too. Politicians are sworn to serve the best interest of the people they represent. They do not represent non-citizens, nor will the legalization of these people serve the good of the nation as a whole. Thus, illegals should not be given citizenship in any way, shape or form. It's really pretty simple.

I think if we're going to cite data, I'd like to see honest data on the economic value of the illegal group as a whole. I don't think it will be favorable in light of the lack of education and other issues.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:56 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
Please, let's not talk about facts. Facts can be confusing.
Polls don't necessarily reflect facts on either side of this issue. They are just intersting to post to see how different they are in results. Most Americans I know personally are not for any CIR or amnesty and I don't have a circle of aquaintences that are just conservatives.

As I have said before, there are far too many clueless Americans that haven't researched illegal immigration and its impact on our nation to be voting in such polls. Instead of random polling I'd like to see a poll where the first requirement is to study the issue first and then take part in such a poll.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Polls don't necessarily reflect facts on either side of this issue. They are just intersting to post to see how different they are in results...
But the poll under discussion on the forum right now showed differently than what you presented it as. How can someone state the tide is changing (opinions will always fluctuate slightly) when the current percentages for the question being contested is the same as they were almost a year ago, a few poll earlier? You have looked it over by now, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...Most Americans I know personally are not for any CIR or amnesty and I don't have a circle of aquaintences that are just conservatives...
You're in an illogical fallacy (worse than the polling model you rail against) if you say your (small) circle of friends represents all of the United States...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...As I have said before, there are far too many clueless Americans that haven't researched illegal immigration and its impact on our nation to be voting in such polls. Instead of random polling I'd like to see a poll where the first requirement is to study the issue first and then take part in such a poll.
And you thought the Americans of the poll you sourced yesterday were more informed?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
A poll conducted by the NYT showed that only 43% of Americans are in favor, dropping from 56% in February. In addition, the number of Americans who say "Go home illegal immigrants" has increased from 20% to 32% at the same time...
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:45 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But the poll under discussion on the forum right now showed differently than what you presented it as. How can someone state the tide is changing (opinions will always fluctuate slightly) when the current percentages for the question being contested is the same as they were almost a year ago, a few poll earlier? You have looked it over by now, right?



You're in an illogical fallacy (worse than the polling model you rail against) if you say your (small) circle of friends represents all of the United States...



And you thought the Americans of the poll you sourced yesterday were more informed?:
The poll showed exactly what the title of this thread claimed. Americans are less inclined to favor this bill now. I don't know why you are trying make more of it than that. The uniformed Americans are starting to get informed on the ramifications of this bill.

FYI, I don't have a small circle of acquaintences. So don't try that one on me. You have no idea.

I post polls that reflect the views of the numerous Americans that I know to counter the pro-amnesty ones. Don't like them or agree with them then don't read them.

If you are going to continue to beat this subject to death along with my posts like you usually do then I won't respond.

Last edited by Oldglory; 05-14-2013 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The poll showed exactly what the title of this thread claimed. Americans are less inclined to favor this bill now. I don't know why you are trying make more of it than that. The uniformed Americans are starting to get informed on the ramifications of this bill...
It is arguable that the immigration environment is the same as it was 11 months ago (and also two years earlier, except for a 1% change in the "don't know" column), because the percentages are exactly the same across the board compared to the premise of your OP:



If the numbers had changed (for the better) after the poll 11 months ago, they can change in the same way again. Polls also follow newsworthy events, and a few questions on this poll covered the Boston bombings (perceived by many Americans to be done by "immigrants") and the U.S. economy. There can be events that may change the climate for better or worse later, but you will be waiting a long time for Americans to be as "informed" as you wish.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:57 PM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 6,992,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The poll showed exactly what the title of this thread claimed. Americans are less inclined to favor this bill now.
The poll did not ask about the proposed legislation. If it has and I've overlooked that .. I'll appreciate your providing a link to where it does. I quoted the one and only exact question, in response #6.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:11 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
The poll did not ask about the proposed legislation. If it has and I've overlooked that .. I'll appreciate your providing a link to where it does. I quoted the one and only exact question, in response #6.
This was the outcome of the poll.

A poll conducted by the NYT showed that only 43% of Americans are in favor (of amnesty) dropping from 56% in February. In addition, the number of Americans who say "Go home illegal immigrants" has increased from 20% to 32% at the same time.

You keep saying it isn't amnesty but the bill will allow illegal immigrants to remain here and that is the bottom line objection from those who were polled regardless of what it is called.
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