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Old 05-21-2013, 04:18 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
No, that is not what it says. You've now resorted to making things up about something you haven't even read. You are the epitome of intellectual dishonesty.
The inevidable "that's not what it states" meme. Disclaimer: "Your individual comprehension may vary".

Let's let Mann himself explain things. '1491' Explores the Americas Before Columbus : NPR
Quote:
YDSTIE: Mm-hmm. And, in fact, if we go back up to North America and to the New England area, for instance, in the first hundred years or so after Europeans began coming to America, they really couldn't establish colonies because the area was so populated.


Mr. MANN: And the Indians, rather naturally, didn't really want these people setting up permanent camps. And so you read the early chronicles and people will make short visits and trade, and the Indians will be very hospitable. And then after a certain amount of time, a large force of armed men will show up and inform the Europeans of the limited duration of Indian hospitality, and the Europeans would shove off. And this happened again and again and again.


YDSTIE: And what changed was disease.


Mr. MANN: Yes.


YDSTIE: And so when the Pilgrims showed up, they found a devastated area or at least an empty area.


Mr. MANN: It was an emptied area, if that makes any sense. `It was a widowed land,' as one historian has called it. In fact, the first 50 settlements in New England were on deserted Indian villages. And they were deserted because all the people in them had died. And, again, if you read the Colonial accounts, they're constantly finding skeletons scattered all over the place, and they landed in a cemetery.


YDSTIE: And, of course, the sort of myth before all of this was that the Indians succumbed to the Europeans because of superior European technology, superior European political organization, maybe even superior moral character. But this whole theory of disease suggests that none of those characteristics were quite as important. And, in fact, you suggest that technologically many of the Indian cultures were just as advanced, though not in the same areas, as the European cultures.


Mr. MANN: Yeah. Take the conquest of the Inca empire, which Pizarro did with just a couple of hundred people--168 I think is the exact number--and usually that's laid to the possession of the horse and steel weaponry. But, in fact, the Inca rapidly learned how to fight the horses. And as far as the steel goes, the armor was actually an impediment. The Spaniards threw it off because the Inca armor, which was made out of this densely woven cotton, was so far superior in those conditions that these things didn't matter.
What really did matter was the appalling political shape that the empire was in from civil war and, also, that Pizarro was an extraordinary leader, and he was extremely adept at playing one faction off against the other. And this kind of thing, the traditional way that people lose, from better generalship, is what mattered, not the technology so much.

 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Where is it in US law that immigrants must adapt to vague "cultural norms"? The nation doesn't even have an official language... or religion or food or dress or... well we could just go on and on. Wouldn't you kind of need those things to actually be in violation of them?
So you still can't comprehend what Western Culture is, you still attempt to base it on Language and now food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I don't know about you, but I also do a lot of things for monetary gain. I do kind of fancy living in a house, being able to buy things... eating. Gosh, you just have to wonder if that motivates illegals too. Or you know, most people on the planet.
Ah yes, here we go. You haven't shown they were living in squalor in their home nations. There own monetary gain doesn't afford them the ability to come and take it from us simply because they want to.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
I've accepted the ideals the book puts forth along time ago, you need to go back and research my comments.

I pointed to an Amazon review (which was not negative in any way to Mann) to make my point, I no longer have the book, I read it in 2006.
No you didn't. You continue to be an incredibly dishonest person. I told you about the book, you did a quick search about and it and started to parrot little bits you read in the reviews. You even admitted to going to Amazon. Please, I wasn't born yesterday.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
No one has said that it is a U.S. law that immigrants have to assimiate that isn't the point. But why come here if you don't want to be a part of our cultural society? It is rude not to. Are we just a cash cow for opportunists then? Geez, comparing Americans earning a living in their own country has nothing to do with assimilation because most Americans are already assimilated. Our cuture is not vague either. English may not be our official language but it is our national de facto language and spoken by the majority of Americans. Even congress declared it our "national" language a few years back. One can hardly succeed in this country without knowing English.

With both legal and illegal immigration coming from mostly one ethnic group these days that is not condusive to assimilaltion but colonization instead. That is why I would like to see us get back to diversity in those numbers. The first Europeans were from several different countries all with different cultures and languages unlike today's "immigrants.
Things change. Either stand in its way or don't, your choice, but it will happen anyway.

The current crop of immigrants is not all from Mexico. Being a majority is not the same as all, just like the English were a majority but were not all.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:45 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
No you didn't. You continue to be an incredibly dishonest person. I told you about the book, you did a quick search about and it and started to parrot little bits you read in the reviews. You even admitted to going to Amazon. Please, I wasn't born yesterday.
Parrot little bits? Hell, if you look above I gave you Mann himself stating pretty much what the review I pointed to says. Again, Having read the book 7 years ago and having no copy at hand, attempting to remember little details simply ain't gonna happen. Nothing you have stated nor have shown has disputed anything I have stated or have shown. Your poor attempt to justify me as incredibly dishonest simply shows you have no ability to actually dispute my comments, instead all you can now do is attempt to vilify me based on your own inabilities.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
The inevidable "that's not what it states" meme. Disclaimer: "Your individual comprehension may vary".

Let's let Mann himself explain things. '1491' Explores the Americas Before Columbus : NPR
That interview supports exactly what I said. Disease played an important role, but no the only one. It allowed for initial colonization of the immediate coast, but the story doesn't exactly end there, does it. The two groups did not skip into the sunset together.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So you still can't comprehend what Western Culture is, you still attempt to base it on Language and now food.

Ah yes, here we go. You haven't shown they were living in squalor in their home nations. There own monetary gain doesn't afford them the ability to come and take it from us simply because they want to.
You haven't bothered to define it beyond vague descriptions open to a large amount of interpretation. If you won't define it, then you leave the door open for others to define it for you.

I don't expect you to empathize. I'd be surprised if you did. Besides, I never said it was an excuse for being an illegal, only a reason why they might choose to be.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
That interview supports exactly what I said. Disease played an important role, but no the only one. It allowed for initial colonization of the immediate coast, but the story doesn't exactly end there, does it. The two groups did not skip into the sunset together.
Your problem is you jump around time lines to much. As things progressed with the colonizers, there were skirmishes with Indians, both were at fault. Later as we became the US and moved west, that is where you would be better arguing your claims of wiping out Indians for a purpose.

You still attempt to imply that the disease that wiped out up to 95% of the natives was intentional, it wasn't. You also attempt to imply it was White Europeans that forcefully decimated the natives, when it was more the government of the US that did so.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Parrot little bits? Hell, if you look above I gave you Mann himself stating pretty much what the review I pointed to says. Again, Having read the book 7 years ago and having no copy at hand, attempting to remember little details simply ain't gonna happen. Nothing you have stated nor have shown has disputed anything I have stated or have shown. Your poor attempt to justify me as incredibly dishonest simply shows you have no ability to actually dispute my comments, instead all you can now do is attempt to vilify me based on your own inabilities.
Your ability to google is not impressive. You didn't read it. Stop lying.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 05:01 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
You haven't bothered to define it beyond vague descriptions open to a large amount of interpretation. If you won't define it, then you leave the door open for others to define it for you.

I don't expect you to empathize. I'd be surprised if you did. Besides, I never said it was an excuse for being an illegal, only a reason why they might choose to be.
Thats because western culture entails a many number of things, some of which I have eluded to, there is no one thing that it is.

I fully understand why they might choose to be, however that is not reason enough for you to go around calling those that point out your poorly worded claims as racist or xenophobic.
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