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Old 05-21-2013, 06:39 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
The book talks about FAR more than just Columbus. It covers most of the Americas and goes into detail about relations in what would become the US.

No, I'm outright saying that what the Spanish did and what other groups like the English did are separate events. The results were often very similar, but they were two groups acting in different locations.

The fact that you have chosen to embrace absolute falsehoods on this subject is not my problem. It is your responsibility to educate yourself. I recommended a book to start from. That's about as much as I can do. The rest is up to you.
Uh; it don't mean a thing. This is 2013, NOT 1491. The Indians got taken down by the Hispanics 1st then; what 100 years later, the anglo whites finished the job. Please remember had the white man done things "Indian" way; there'd be NO Indians left since the men and older women would've been killed and the young women given to the winners.

 
Old 05-21-2013, 06:44 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Wait, you argued earlier that these Europeans had no part at all in the decimation of the native population, yet here you are saying that I can make the case that they were wiping them out on purpose once they left the coast and after the disease killed off many of them. So then you agree, these settlers were not innocents. They may have unintentionally wiped out millions with their diseases (which I never once said it was intentional), but their later actions could hardly be described as such. And it happened long before America ever formed. Or do you really think these people just sat on the coast for 150 years?
Uh; those diseases also KILLED millions of white people in Europe back in the day. So what? It's a part of history, NOTHING more. Sheesh!
 
Old 05-21-2013, 06:46 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,107 posts, read 3,392,310 times
Reputation: 8667
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
Nothing at all, where are these 100 million tax paying law abiding citizens?

Illegal immigrations rates began to decline as far back as 2007 due to the recession and the lack of jobs, for everyone in America. It had absolutely nothing to do with America's policies to keep out illegal immigrants. Things got tough and they decided to pack their bags and go home, Americans are still here.

Unless you are stating that your commentary is based on your opinion only please provide research or data to back up your statements so that we may determine that you are not making a classic case of forcing people into stereotypical groups to serve an agenda.

Best regards, sincerely

HomeIsWhere...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
What group am I stereotyping, exactly?
Anyone who disagrees with your rationale and makes an argument against amnesty for illegal immigrants and for the record, just my view.

Best regards, sincerely

HomeIsWhere...
 
Old 05-21-2013, 07:47 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299
Lets summarize the argument
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Because if you knew anything about history you would know that Spain conquered and made slaves of the Indians, while the English, German, French, made agreements with the Indians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
No disagreement that the Spanish were awful to the people in Central and South America, but there is plenty of similar atrocity attributed to other groups in what would become the US and Canada. There is not a single European group that didn't have significant blood on its hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I'm outright saying that what the Spanish did and what other groups like the English did are separate events. The results were often very similar, but they were two groups acting in different locations.

The fact that you have chosen to embrace absolute falsehoods on this subject is not my problem. It is your responsibility to educate yourself. I recommended a book to start from. That's about as much as I can do. The rest is up to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You do, I hope, realize that most of that book is "speculative" and discusses groups from what is now Central and South America, right? When he gets to the, what is now the US, he points out, pretty much in agreement with my comments, that the Europeans didn't simply take what they wanted and it was disease that mostly wiped out the Indians. I hope you also realize that your book points out the fact that Look at that, disputed by your own referenced material.
and from Mann the author of jcbmh81's link:
Quote:
YDSTIE: And the new research over the past few decades also suggests that North America was as populated as Europe.


Mr. MANN: Yeah. Because the Indians were wiped out to an extraordinary degree by disease, these diseases went ahead of the settlers. And so European colonists would come in and they would find essentially recently deserted land. And so their whole impression was of a sparsely populated area. And it's only been in the last few decades, thanks to more advanced archaeological and scientific tools, we've been able to realize exactly how many people were there before the Europeans arrived.
WTF.... Mann agrees with me? Who wouldathunkit?

It wasn't those evil, nasty "White Europeans" decimating the natives for a purpose, it was diseases that were spread un-intentionally, since most colonizers and early Europeans (British, German, French, and Scandinavian) treated the natives as equals. It was the Spanish that enslaved them. Hell, even Indians enslaved captives from other tribes to do menial tasks for the tribe prior to the arrival of the colonizers.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 05-21-2013 at 08:03 PM..
 
Old 05-21-2013, 09:56 PM
 
7 posts, read 23,009 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The problem is -- this amnesty being discussed now will not solve a single problem.

Many illegals hear the promises of "family reunification" and for many their cultural definition of family is the extended family, to them family doesn't include only legal spouse and minor children.

How many illegals are going to be satisfied that they can bring in 4 or 5 children under age 21 but will not be able to bring in the rest of them that are over age 21? Many assume that family would include siblings, grandparents, grandchildren -- if not their aunts, uncles, cousins and everyone's spouses and kids -- and all the extended families of them.

How many illegals will feel their families were reunified when their older children were denied entry? Or their favorite aunt and uncle and cousins cannot join them here?

There are very many problems with this bill -- also exactly how are the elderly illegals being given amnesty going to be supported in their golden years? An illegal who showed up in 2011 at age 62 or more will be over retirement age, and will not have paid into social security taxes -- so will the 40 quarters requirement be dropped for them so they will be given social security checks or will they simply be put on disability?
I recently followed my daughter to LA (we moved from Nashville) and I feel as if I live in a different country. And LA is LESS Hispanic than most of the surrounding areas!

I knew LA had money problems but I had NO IDEA just how severe it is until we moved here. There is NO WAY I would buy a house here. This city will implode if this bill is passed.

I think they should put it to a vote - like we do for president.

I can't wait to leave this state and move to back to America....
 
Old 05-22-2013, 01:50 AM
Yac
 
5,875 posts, read 6,293,306 times
This thread has exploded since yesterday, and from what I can tell ~80% of that explosion is a couple of members going out of their way to prove the other side is wrong/racist/uneducated. This is a forum, not an arena - you discuss ideas here, look for solutions, point out potential problems and try to work around them. If you want to fight, either fight in private or find a place that actually accepts this kind of behavior.
Closed.
Yac.
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