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Old 05-19-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,625,088 times
Reputation: 7275

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokesalad4u2 View Post
No thats a lie the liberals tell .

America was not built by immigrants. .
Baloney. Pre 1900, America was not the world's major economy. We were neither numero uno in the 18th or 19th centuries.

Immigration of the late 19th and early 20th century created the dynamic economy we have now. Those were the seeds.

 
Old 05-19-2013, 01:29 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,502,598 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Baloney. Pre 1900, America was not the world's major economy. We were neither numero uno in the 18th or 19th centuries.

Immigration of the late 19th and early 20th century created the dynamic economy we have now. Those were the seeds.
Uh; MOST of those people came here LEGALLY and those who failed, went back home. There was NO welfare and so on like in 2013.
 
Old 05-19-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,625,088 times
Reputation: 7275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; MOST of those people came here LEGALLY and those who failed, went back home. There was NO welfare and so on like in 2013.

That is true, but your comment that we were a nation of settlers, not immigrants was dumb..unless you want undeveloped America circa 1843 back. I don't.
 
Old 05-19-2013, 04:18 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,267,294 times
Reputation: 22185
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
That is true, but your comment that we were a nation of settlers, not immigrants was dumb..unless you want undeveloped America circa 1843 back. I don't.
Well there is also a difference when you have vast regions of mostly uninhabited land -- even Spain did that with Texas, since it couldn't convince Mexicans to relocate to Texas because the Mexicans were afraid of the Indians and also because they preferred to live closer to the center of their country, Spain opened up immigration to non-Mexicans so that Texas would have settlers.

There are no unclaimed lands, everything is already taken, already settled. So there is no need in bringing in many millions to settle lands.

The other reason they brought in immigrants in the past was because the Industrial Age needed them. Tody the factories sit empty and the powers-that-be have found a better way to produce things and that is to have them produced cheaply in China. So we don't need many millions of immigrants for the idle factories. The Industrial Age is over -- and nothing has replaced it.

Farm land is fast disappearing -- millions of acres every year are being plowed under to build the housing for our very rapidly increasing population so we can no longer have an agrian economy.

300 years ago, a family could afford to live without the parents both college educated -- that's not the case any more. 300 years ago, they were also bringing in slaves -- so let's hope that what was done in the past doesn't justify anything today.
 
Old 05-19-2013, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,916 posts, read 12,944,331 times
Reputation: 5563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Yes, built by LEGAL immigrants and Americans. Learn to know the difference. We are already built now and are no longer a nation of immigrants but a nation of Americans. We have limits on legal immigration today and for good reasons.
I wouldn't exactly call European colonization legal.

According to the Census, international migration will be the dominant form of US growth. International Migration is Projected to Become Primary Driver of U.S. Population Growth for First Time in Nearly Two Centuries - Population - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

I can only imagine how frightening this must be for some of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And now we're a very populated country that doesn't need billions of immigrants. Do we need a nation of 400 billion people just because the liberal masters want unlimited numbers of cheap servants?

Remember when those earlier immigrants came, there were many fewer people around, there was land to be homesteaded -- and Indians to be rounded up and put on reservations, is that something that you intend to repeat? There is no more unowned land.

Also back then, impoverished immigrants didn't end up on welfare handouts as they do today.
No, they lived in tenements 20 to a room and contracted tuberculosis on a regular basis. Ah, the good old days Oh, and these were probably your ancestors. I'm not talking about Hispanics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Ok, but we didn't' have all these social welfare programs back then did we ?
They relied on family to get their start.

What happens when they all sign up for welfare benefits ?
Because clearly none of these immigrants have a shred of pride, motivation or intelligence, so as soon as they're legal, they will immediate decide to live off the system. Despite the fact that they're leaving countries like Mexico that basically pay for their health care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
There's about 75 million votes for the Democrats. By giving those illegals amnesty, the Democrats will secure their position in the years to come.
I know. Who will put women, gays and minorities in their place?

Last edited by Yac; 05-20-2013 at 04:50 AM.. Reason: 4 posts in a row merged
 
Old 05-20-2013, 07:37 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,267,294 times
Reputation: 22185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I wouldn't exactly call European colonization legal.

According to the Census, international migration will be the dominant form of US growth. International Migration is Projected to Become Primary Driver of U.S. Population Growth for First Time in Nearly Two Centuries - Population - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

I can only imagine how frightening this must be for some of you.



No, they lived in tenements 20 to a room and contracted tuberculosis on a regular basis. Ah, the good old days Oh, and these were probably your ancestors. I'm not talking about Hispanics.



Because clearly none of these immigrants have a shred of pride, motivation or intelligence, so as soon as they're legal, they will immediate decide to live off the system. Despite the fact that they're leaving countries like Mexico that basically pay for their health care.



I know. Who will put women, gays and minorities in their place?
Actually my ancestors didn't die of tuberculosis and didn't cram 20 to a room. They were homesteaders and had big farm houses.

I don't quite understand your point -- why is bringing millions of impoverished to have crammed 20 to a room and dying of tuberculosis such a good thing? Whatever happened to liberals caring about overpopulation and the environment? Not to mention jobs and wages and poverty. Now it seems that's all they want.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 08:15 AM
 
33,122 posts, read 15,070,934 times
Reputation: 8801
Why do people constantly compare mostly legal immigration of the past to illegal immigration today? Conditions, population numbers and so many other factors were different back then. It is as if they are trying to justify illegal immigration today based on their idea of what the past was. Everything is different today and therefore our policies and laws on immigration have had to change. Why is that so hard for some to grasp?
 
Old 05-20-2013, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 70,688,569 times
Reputation: 27546
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post

Because clearly none of these immigrants have a shred of pride, motivation or intelligence, so as soon as they're legal, they will immediate decide to live off the system. Despite the fact that they're leaving countries like Mexico that basically pay for their health care.
Skill, education and a grasp of the English language is what it takes to better yourself.
The majority of these undocumented Democrats have a 5th grade education, speak little to no English and have manual labor skills.

Do you think amnesty is going to magically make them more educated and more skilled ?
Many are already getting benefits from their kids. Once they are LPR then they can sign up themselves.

Here's some current stats. They won't change with amnesty.

Immigrants in the United States, 2010: A Profile of America's Foreign-Born Population | Center for Immigration Studies
Immigrants and their young children (under 18) now account for more than one in five public school students, one-fourth of those in poverty, and nearly one-third of those without health insurance, creating very real challenges for the nationís schools, health care systems, and physical infrastructure. The large share of immigrants who arrive as adults with relatively few years of schooling is the primary reason so many live in poverty, use welfare programs, or lack health insurance, not their legal status or an unwillingness to work.
..
A central question for immigration policy is: Should we continue to allow in so many people with little education ó increasing potential job competition for the poorest American workers and the population in need of government assistance?
 
Old 05-20-2013, 08:35 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,502,598 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I wouldn't exactly call European colonization legal.
You need to talk to Spain about that.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,916 posts, read 12,944,331 times
Reputation: 5563
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Actually my ancestors didn't die of tuberculosis and didn't cram 20 to a room. They were homesteaders and had big farm houses.

I don't quite understand your point -- why is bringing millions of impoverished to have crammed 20 to a room and dying of tuberculosis such a good thing? Whatever happened to liberals caring about overpopulation and the environment? Not to mention jobs and wages and poverty. Now it seems that's all they want.
Yes, I realize you missed the point. The nation already brought in millions and millions of impoverished long before Hispanics. Seems to have worked out just fine, despite the equally rabid anti-immigrant, anti-poor and pro-"real American" sentiment. A status on paper makes no guarantees as to a person's character. After all, I wouldn't trust most of you scooping my dog's crap off the sidewalk, and you're all legal.

Just curious, though... what Native Americans had to give up their land for your ancestor homesteaders? Or were they already killed or moved beforehand so they didn't have to deal with the unwashed savages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Why do people constantly compare mostly legal immigration of the past to illegal immigration today? Conditions, population numbers and so many other factors were different back then. It is as if they are trying to justify illegal immigration today based on their idea of what the past was. Everything is different today and therefore our policies and laws on immigration have had to change. Why is that so hard for some to grasp?
Because it's fun to watch you guys scramble and make excuses against historical context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Skill, education and a grasp of the English language is what it takes to better yourself.
The majority of these undocumented Democrats have a 5th grade education, speak little to no English and have manual labor skills.

Do you think amnesty is going to magically make them more educated and more skilled ?
Many are already getting benefits from their kids. Once they are LPR then they can sign up themselves.

Here's some current stats. They won't change with amnesty.

Immigrants in the United States, 2010: A Profile of America's Foreign-Born Population | Center for Immigration Studies
Immigrants and their young children (under 18) now account for more than one in five public school students, one-fourth of those in poverty, and nearly one-third of those without health insurance, creating very real challenges for the nationís schools, health care systems, and physical infrastructure. The large share of immigrants who arrive as adults with relatively few years of schooling is the primary reason so many live in poverty, use welfare programs, or lack health insurance, not their legal status or an unwillingness to work.
..
A central question for immigration policy is: Should we continue to allow in so many people with little education ó increasing potential job competition for the poorest American workers and the population in need of government assistance?
Still not seeing the connection. Even if you really believe this, and I have no doubt you do because it's just so much more easy and convenient to malign people you think are inferior to yourself, I still don't see how low-skill, low-education, or even poor, automatically equates to lazy, welfare queens. There are plenty of people who fit that description who still work full-time jobs and do their best to support themselves and their families. Anyone who has ever been to a nation like Mexico could easily see that, yet you're telling me that that all changes instantly at the border? Nonsense.

And sorry, but you can find better sources than that. "Low immigration, pro immigrant". What could that possibly be code for? Hmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
You need to talk to Spain about that.
Why only Spain?

Last edited by Yac; 05-21-2013 at 03:30 AM.. Reason: 4 posts in a row merged
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