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Old 05-20-2013, 07:13 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Yes, I realize you missed the point. The nation already brought in millions and millions of impoverished long before Hispanics. Seems to have worked out just fine, despite the equally rabid anti-immigrant, anti-poor and pro-"real American" sentiment. A status on paper makes no guarantees as to a person's character. After all, I wouldn't trust most of you scooping my dog's crap off the sidewalk, and you're all legal.

Just curious, though... what Native Americans had to give up their land for your ancestor homesteaders? Or were they already killed or moved beforehand so they didn't have to deal with the unwashed savages?
Uh; the American Indians did some real nasty stuff to each other back in the day so why are you giving them a pass but are so upset over what the 1st Hispanics did?

 
Old 05-20-2013, 07:16 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Why only Spain?
Spain "discovered" the New World 1st; everyone else followed many years later.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 07:27 PM
 
31,535 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8395
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Because it's fun to watch you guys scramble and make excuses against historical context.
You're the one making excuses for illegal immigration today based on the past.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 09:29 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,106 posts, read 3,392,310 times
Reputation: 8667
Default With all due respect, sincerely

Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
What is wrong about 100 million new tax paying law abiding citizens?
Nothing at all, where are these 100 million tax paying law abiding citizens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
Yay another thread full of people who dislike illegal immigration so much that they stop understanding math and geography (I thought Africa was the continent everybody wrongly thinks is a country, not Asia.)

I don't like illegal immigration at all, but demographics in the countries where most illegal immigrants come from are not favorable to sustain the increases that we had before. In fact, illegal immigration rates have slowed massively and may even be negative for the past few years.

Let's hail that as good news that America's policies to keep out illegal immigrants are working, instead of inventing bogeymen to hate on liberals. It will make your agenda a lot more credible.
Illegal immigrations rates began to decline as far back as 2007 due to the recession and the lack of jobs, for everyone in America. It had absolutely nothing to do with America's policies to keep out illegal immigrants. Things got tough and they decided to pack their bags and go home, Americans are still here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
You continue to associate things that don't have an automatic association, such as poor=uneducated, or immigrant=welfare. This is a classic case of forcing people into stereotypical groups to serve an agenda.

Education isn't valued in these other countries? What a laughably simplistic statement.

"Some" realistic papers? I don't doubt that, but there is also a very clear bias and I don't think this issue deserves that treatment. And let's be honest, television actors have been called to testify on issues. That's not that impressive.
Unless you are stating that your commentary is based on your opinion only please provide research or data to back up your statements so that we may determine that you are not making a classic case of forcing people into stereotypical groups to serve an agenda.

Best regards, sincerely

HomeIsWhere...
 
Old 05-20-2013, 09:52 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Yes, I realize you missed the point. The nation already brought in millions and millions of impoverished long before Hispanics. Seems to have worked out just fine, despite the equally rabid anti-immigrant, anti-poor and pro-"real American" sentiment. A status on paper makes no guarantees as to a person's character. After all, I wouldn't trust most of you scooping my dog's crap off the sidewalk, and you're all legal.

Just curious, though... what Native Americans had to give up their land for your ancestor homesteaders? Or were they already killed or moved beforehand so they didn't have to deal with the unwashed savages?
Exactly!!! It didn't work out so well for the Indians did it -- when you have people who have no intention of assimilating and learning your language -- watch out!! Just because it happened to the Indians so long ago doesn't mean we should not learn the lesson of what took place with them --- why repeat their mistake?

Also Mexico and Central American nations are part of the New World, they were formed by immigration --- does that give Americans some special right to break the laws of those countries?

What happened in the past does not justify anything today -- or because your ancestors owned slaves, would that justify slavery?

My ancestors did not kill Indians -- nor did they cut off their feet like the Mexicans were doing to them. There was a reason the Comanches ran the Mexicans off. Mexicans stole the land of their Indians -- and treat them much worse.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,751,394 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; the American Indians did some real nasty stuff to each other back in the day so why are you giving them a pass but are so upset over what the 1st Hispanics did?
A pass for what, exactly? "Did some real nasty stuff to each other" is like the caption of a movie about human interaction. I'm not sure how that excuses what became a cultural and very literal genocide. And what 1st Hispanics? It wasn't Hispanics who did this in what would become the US/Canada.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,751,394 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So it was all the "white" mans fault? Indians attacked many travelers as they went through territories for no other reason then they were white and wanted what ever they could get to trade for guns.

Continental genocide? Hispanics have a long way to go to become the majority, centuries. Until that happens, none of us today will be around to see it, I guess your OK with keeping out illegals.

Revisionist non-sense? Actually there is very little "other" atrocities by other groups. Significant blood on their hands? Talk about revisionist history?
Wow, were you homeschooled? Even the worst American history books at your average public school have more accurate information in them about Native/European relations than you seem to know about. It's a few years old now, but you might try reading books like "1491", which encompass most of the current knowledge and evidence surrounding what Native America looked like before, during and after European contact.

Oh, and if Hispanics are in no danger of becoming a majority, the level of fear for them in this forum is even more illogical than it already is.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,751,394 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
My question would be what has that to do with today? Those people are all dead now. Or are we guilty of what our ancestors did or didn't do long ago? My ancestors came here well after any conflicts with the so-called natives. The Mestizo Mexicans are the descenants of the Spaniards so what makes them any better than us?
Because history only matters in the context of having a direct connection to it?
 
Old 05-21-2013, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,751,394 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Spain "discovered" the New World 1st; everyone else followed many years later.
No, it didn't. The Spanish did have explorers there before Columbus, but they weren't the first Europeans there. And you can't exactly "discover" a place that already had tens of millions of people living there.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,751,394 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Exactly!!! It didn't work out so well for the Indians did it -- when you have people who have no intention of assimilating and learning your language -- watch out!! Just because it happened to the Indians so long ago doesn't mean we should not learn the lesson of what took place with them --- why repeat their mistake?

Also Mexico and Central American nations are part of the New World, they were formed by immigration --- does that give Americans some special right to break the laws of those countries?

What happened in the past does not justify anything today -- or because your ancestors owned slaves, would that justify slavery?

My ancestors did not kill Indians -- nor did they cut off their feet like the Mexicans were doing to them. There was a reason the Comanches ran the Mexicans off. Mexicans stole the land of their Indians -- and treat them much worse.
I must've missed the part where Mexicans were committing mass murder, signing false treaties and stealing land from Americans. It's not a takeover. It's an addition. Kind of an important difference.

They were not formed by immigration. The land already had names and borders and people before Europeans ever showed up. What you're trying to say is that they were changed to fit European ideals long after.

It's amazing how often this idea of White people being the benevolent, god-fearing settlers gets promoted on an anti-illegal (or let's face it, anti-immigrant) forum. History does not support this viewpoint in any way.
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