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Old 05-21-2013, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,775,226 times
Reputation: 5466

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
And I repeat what country in the world would welcome an unnatural and unlawful transformation of their culture, language and demographics via illegal immigration? Would Mexico welcome that if they were invaded by millions of Chinese illegally? The hypocrite needs to answer this question instead of using words like "fear" as if the above is about fear rather than a justified objection.

And another lie is that we are anti-"immigrant".
What people fear and object to is often a lot different than the actual threat. And let's be honest, if the US and its citizens really felt in danger by all these immigrants, the issue would've been resolved a long time ago. The people here have repeatedly shown that their objections have nothing to do with the legality of these people, but in where they are coming from and the culture they're bringing with them. The law argument is a complete red herring.

Granted, that's not universal and I'm sure there are people against illegal immigration who actually do have an issue because of the legality, but on this forum... nah.

 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:47 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,529 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
The book talks about FAR more than just Columbus. It covers most of the Americas and goes into detail about relations in what would become the US.

No, I'm outright saying that what the Spanish did and what other groups like the English did are separate events. The results were often very similar, but they were two groups acting in different locations.

The fact that you have chosen to embrace absolute falsehoods on this subject is not my problem. It is your responsibility to educate yourself. I recommended a book to start from. That's about as much as I can do. The rest is up to you.
You do, I hope, realize that most of that book is "speculative" and discusses groups from what is now Central and South America, right? When he gets to the, what is now the US, he points out, pretty much in agreement with my comments, that the Europeans didn't simply take what they wanted and it was disease that mostly wiped out the Indians. I hope you also realize that your book points out the fact that
Quote:
To many of those who were there, the earliest encounters felt more like a meeting of equals than one of natural domination. And those who came later and found an emptied landscape that seemed ripe for the taking, Mann argues convincingly, encountered not the natural and unchanging state of the native American, but the evidence of a sudden calamity: the ravages of what was likely the greatest epidemic in human history, the smallpox and other diseases introduced inadvertently by Europeans to a population without immunity, which swept through the Americas faster than the explorers who brought it, and left behind for their discovery a land that held only a shadow of the thriving cultures that it had sustained for centuries before. --Tom Nissley
Look at that, disputed by your own referenced material.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,775,226 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
It's called Western Culture or Western European Culture. There are no major variances in Europe when it comes to the major culture, they all have minor cultural differences, sub-cultures if you will.


You think St Patricks day is held for the Irish here? Do you even know why St Patrick's day is celebrated? HINT: Its not because of Irish immigrants.
What makes up this "Western Culture", exactly? It's not a common language, obviously, so what else?

No, I think it's held so people can get drunk on green beer, but that's clearly not the origin. Irish immigrants did bring it over with them, that's the point, not that it's a celebration to honor them.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:49 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,529 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
So then you agree that the Spanish were not the first to "discover" the Americas, let alone the first Europeans. Thanks!
What's there to thank, I've said that since my first few comments on this forum. You might try researching whom you are attempting to discuss with.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:50 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,529 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
It's pretty clear to me now that you are of the mindset that White=Superior, and are likely little more than a racist. There is absolutely no other reasonable explanation for believing any of that.
So because you can't comprehend anything beyond your own rationalizations of fallacy, I am therefor declared a racist by you. That's f'n hilarious.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,775,226 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Europe, the EU, lives under one major culture, Western, while all the countries (states) within the union live with their own sub-cultures. This is no different then the US and each state having sub-cultures of their own defining, this does not change the ruling culture of Western Culture. Asian countries have what is known as Eastern Culture, yet Asian nations are inherently different sub-culturally.
So then I can only assume you would be for kicking out all legal immigrants who don't share this culture, either? There are millions of legal immigrants from Asia, Africa, the Americas, etc. These people aren't helping that along, so obviously from your perspective this is not good either.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,775,226 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Just an added note. The Europeans who migrated here from different countries formed a melting pot with one identity and one dominant language that nearly all assimilated to and that was English. Not saying that they didn't retain some of their country's cultures but out mainstream they became one identifying and cohesive American culture. That is the opposite of the colonization that is going on today. Illegal immigration is helping to perpetuate that colonization.
It's not the opposite. Plenty of research has been done on this. First generation immigrants are the least likely to completely adopt their new nation's dominant culture, but all subsequent generations more or less do. This was true for Europeans and it's absolutely true for all other groups.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:58 PM
 
31,747 posts, read 14,639,851 times
Reputation: 8461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So because you can't comprehend anything beyond your own rationalizations of fallacy, I am therefor declared a racist by you. That's f'n hilarious.
LOL! The Spanish were white also. Apparently to want our immigration laws enforced is racist and a white superiority thing according to....well you know. Are Mexicans superior and racist for wanting the immigration laws of their country enforced?
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,775,226 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You do, I hope, realize that most of that book is "speculative" and discusses groups from what is now Central and South America, right? When he gets to the, what is now the US, he points out, pretty much in agreement with my comments, that the Europeans didn't simply take what they wanted and it was disease that mostly wiped out the Indians. I hope you also realize that your book points out the fact that Look at that, disputed by your own referenced material.
The picture it paints is based on historical accounts, physical evidence through archeology, scientific deduction, etc. It's not simply out-of-thin-air speculation. And given that I've read it a few times over the years, I'm pretty familiar with what's in it. It covers North America plenty.

Disease did play a significant role, but absolutely not the only one. Much of the death from disease occurred over about 100 years from first contact. It was not immediate and there was plenty that these European "settlers" did to these people that was horrific by any standard. The book does not support you whatsoever, and your casual glance at the book's description in a review or jacket cover just makes you seem lazy.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,775,226 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So because you can't comprehend anything beyond your own rationalizations of fallacy, I am therefor declared a racist by you. That's f'n hilarious.
They're your words. You seem to have a particularly strong aversion for holding White Europeans culpable for anything. How many reasonable explanations for this are possible? No actual evidence supports this position, so the only logical place it comes from would be a preconceived bias that White people are simply more civilized and "better".
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