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Old 05-21-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
What makes up this "Western Culture", exactly? It's not a common language, obviously, so what else?
Surely you don't think culture is defined by language alone, do you? Western culture is defined by heritage, social, ethical, traditional values, customs, beliefs, and political systems.

 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
LOL! The Spanish were white also. Apparently to want our immigration laws enforced is racist and a white superiority thing according to....well you know. Are Mexicans superior and racist for wanting the immigration laws of their country enforced?
Racism is not race-specific in that anyone of any color, background, ethnicity or nationality can be one. Falling all over yourselves denying this about a certain group in which it is a historical given is just sticking your head in the sand. It's willful ignorance and there can be only one real reason why that is.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Surely you don't think culture is defined by language alone, do you? Western culture is defined by heritage, social, ethical, traditional values, customs, beliefs, and political systems.
No, I'm saying it would have to be defined some other way because Western Europe does not have one common language.

That's an extremely vague answer. Can you elaborate?
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:10 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
So then I can only assume you would be for kicking out all legal immigrants who don't share this culture, either? There are millions of legal immigrants from Asia, Africa, the Americas, etc. These people aren't helping that along, so obviously from your perspective this is not good either.
WOW, where have I stated that I want people kicked out who don't share US Culture?
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:14 PM
 
31,557 posts, read 14,591,651 times
Reputation: 8409
It's always been about assimilation by immigrants to the main society including learning and speaking English. Otherwise why join our society? There is nothing wrong with practicing one's native culture and language at home and keeping it alive that way.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
The picture it paints is based on historical accounts, physical evidence through archeology, scientific deduction, etc. It's not simply out-of-thin-air speculation. And given that I've read it a few times over the years, I'm pretty familiar with what's in it. It covers North America plenty.
It is speculation non-the-less. It is Mann's interpretation based on the evidence he used. I too have read the book when it first came out. Nothing in that book disputes anything I have stated in my comments. In fact, it disputed your claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Disease did play a significant role, but absolutely not the only one. Much of the death from disease occurred over about 100 years from first contact. It was not immediate and there was plenty that these European "settlers" did to these people that was horrific by any standard. The book does not support you whatsoever, and your casual glance at the book's description in a review or jacket cover just makes you seem lazy.
Again, Mann is being speculative based on his interpretation of the evidence he is using. He is no historian, he holds no credentials other than a journalist. His book is thought provoking, nothing more.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
WOW, where have I stated that I want people kicked out who don't share US Culture?
Are you not agreeing with the poster who stated that the US was in danger of losing its culture because of all these illegal immigrants? Didn't you reply to my response to him asking which culture the US was in danger of losing? Haven't you been attempting to define "Western Culture" as the same as American? Wouldn't all these immigrants who don't share that culture help further the process of the US losing it? Just seems like the logical conclusion that if you don't like Hispanics (and it's not about the legality), then you should also not like the rest.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
It's always been about assimilation by immigrants to the main society including learning and speaking English. Otherwise why join our society? There is nothing wrong with practicing one's native culture and language at home.
And again, assimilation is a generational process. It always has been and always will be. Hispanic immigrants, particularly their subsequent generations, will follow the exact same assimilation process that all other groups before them have.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:17 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
They're your words. You seem to have a particularly strong aversion for holding White Europeans culpable for anything. How many reasonable explanations for this are possible? No actual evidence supports this position, so the only logical place it comes from would be a preconceived bias that White people are simply more civilized and "better".
Where Europeans culpable for exposing small pox and various other diseases upon Indians? Was it intentional? Your own book states that most Europeans saw the natives as being equals not that Europeans were superior.

Again, your inability to comprehend even your own referenced material limits you to projection of ignorance based on you ability to comprehend the discussion.
 
Old 05-21-2013, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,756,075 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
It is speculation non-the-less. It is Mann's interpretation based on the evidence he used. I too have read the book when it first came out. Nothing in that book disputes anything I have stated in my comments. In fact, it disputed your claims.

Again, Mann is being speculative based on his interpretation of the evidence he is using. He is no historian, he holds no credentials other than a journalist. His book is thought provoking, nothing more.
It is not just one book or one guy. This evidence has been building for decades and is now regularly published in articles/books talking about this period. Whether or not you want to accept it, I really don't care.

You haven't even read the book. Reading selected negative Amazon reviews does not make you an expert on its contents.
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