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Old 12-17-2007, 05:09 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,298,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User 2 View Post
Safe journey, TF

"Men are not disturbed by things, but the view they take of things."
- Epictetus (55-135 A.D.)
Safe jorney to you too, may the spirit be with you!

ॐ Shiva Mahadeva!

शांति शांति
Peace Peace
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:03 PM
 
10 posts, read 15,076 times
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Never mind WHO MIGRATED WHERE..the fact is our SW border buddies MIGRATED to the EUROPEAN FORMED WELFARE SYSTEM and scored a nipple.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:08 PM
 
10 posts, read 15,076 times
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I think the Pilgrims won because they were the superior Indian tribe...otherwise one of the other Indian tribes would have won whats wrong with a white tribe being the winner?We must fight racism against Caucasians...
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Old 12-18-2007, 01:51 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,159,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squarebuckledefender View Post
Never mind WHO MIGRATED WHERE..the fact is our SW border buddies MIGRATED to the EUROPEAN FORMED WELFARE SYSTEM and scored a nipple.
Welfare was implemented as part of the new deal. Mexican immigrants have been coming here since long before that.
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,371,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Mexican immigrants have been coming here since long before that.
Legally PL - Legally. They were sponsored for jobs. They applied for permanent immigration status (green cards)

It is only in the last 15/20 years we have seen the EXPLOSION of illegal immigration as we now have it
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:19 PM
 
Location: At Sea....and Midwest....
272 posts, read 715,293 times
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The whole problem with the 'go back where you came from' mentality is that ultimately we ALL came from the same place.....So how far back do we take this? Where ever it is convenient for some particular group or other? Do we give all of Europe back to Rome? It WAS after all THEIR'S.....Or do we give it to Mongolia?....Should we give Syria, Iraq, Iran and the rest to Turkey?
As for North America....let's give it back to the Woolly Mammoths....
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Mate View Post
The whole problem with the 'go back where you came from' mentality is that ultimately we ALL came from the same place.....So how far back do we take this? Where ever it is convenient for some particular group or other? Do we give all of Europe back to Rome? It WAS after all THEIR'S.....Or do we give it to Mongolia?....Should we give Syria, Iraq, Iran and the rest to Turkey?
As for North America....let's give it back to the Woolly Mammoths....
Very true.

Using just American Indians: even the Navajo arrived about 1,000 years ago and (probably) displaced/absorbed the indigenous peoples already present.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:35 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,159,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Legally PL - Legally. They were sponsored for jobs. They applied for permanent immigration status (green cards)

It is only in the last 15/20 years we have seen the EXPLOSION of illegal immigration as we now have it
Not everyone came here legally. Illegal immigration has been going on long before you were born, longer than my Grandpa probably.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:00 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,690,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Very true.

Using just American Indians: even the Navajo arrived about 1,000 years ago and (probably) displaced/absorbed the indigenous peoples already present.
That is oh so true.

Soon after 1500 AD, Sioux people were still living a nomadic life in their homes around the northern Great Lakes portions of Canada. But by the 1700's the Sioux, along with the Cheyenne and the Arapaho, left their home and migrated to the Great Plains instead, further southwest (in modern North and South Dakota, Eastern Wyoming, and Minnesota).

The main reason that the Sioux moved to the Great Plains was that beginning in the early 1600's they were pushed out of the Great Lakes area by the Ojibwe people.

Archaeologists are finding ample evidence of an early proto-Apache presence in the Southwestern mountain zone in the 1400s and perhaps earlier. Their presence on both the Plains and in the mountainous Southwest indicate that there were multiple early migration routes. By the time of European contact, the multiple bands of Apache were spread throughout the southwest. My great-grandmother, who was full-blood Apache, was born in Texas, where large numbers of Apache once lived and flourished before they were forced to fight the Mexican incursion into their lands.

Because of the early hunter-gatherer lifestyles of the Native American Indians and because their own myths deny any sort of migration but insist upon the belief that they have always been here, it is truly difficult to know which indigenous peoples were either absorbed into new populations or totally eradicated.

Some native populations have been in the modern day U.S. for less than 500 years.

So, I'd have to agree with CoffeeMate. The modern day U.S. actually belongs to the mega-fauna of years past. We should really return it.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:17 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
So, I'd have to agree with CoffeeMate. The modern day U.S. actually belongs to the mega-fauna of years past. We should really return it.
There are certain groups in Northern California and the Pacific NW who are trying to do something pretty close to this right now!

Seriously, though, I enjoy your knowledgeable posts. I've always has a fascination with what happened BEFORE the "history books were written". Some theories are pretty wacko, and some are probably very close to the truth. Your posts seem like the latter to me.....

Beyond that, this entire thread of "All Europeans are Illegal" does get rather tedious, and illustrates the tangled mess of the "Aztlan"-style of making a case, in which solid facts ar mixed in with nonsensical half-truths, and angry emotional taunts are used as "proofs" of things that happened, and science is discounted as just another set of myths. The case gets plenty loud, but simply falls apart under questioning-- so its promoters react by just getting louder.

We're talking here of trying to equate the present high-tech society we ALL live in (even those of us who profess to HATE it, and its benefits), with a romanticized, mythological, half-fictional past. We are reminded of how wonderful that past was, and how "awful" things are now. None of it will "hold up", though, because it's a fiction. All of us on this forum live in TODAY, and today, whether we like it or not, our society could not exist without all sorts of regulations and laws that once didn't exist. Immigration law is a very ORDINARY law, no different than many others-- it just generates more "noise" than most, because the "race card" can be brought into it. Other than that, immigration is nothing more than a trespassing situation, involving national sovereignty.

For those who idealize the past, it should be remembered that we're talking about an era in which MOST of what we have now didn't exist. I don't think ANY of us can truly understand just how DIFFERENT from ours the average person's world-view was, back 200 or 500 years ago.....No "fair" laws, no records, no birth certificates, no borders, no private property, no human rights, no individual "freedoms" as we know them today, and no ability to even READ or WRITE, for most people. THe average individual never in his ENTIRE LIFE learned ANYTHING that wasn't "told" to him verbally. Trying to compare that "world" with today's reality is just plain ludicrous. It's fun to speculate about over a beer, but it doesn't work in "real life", and it's this lack of a solid argument that causes the subject of illegal immigrant's "rights" to get so very NOISY. When people don't have the facts on their side, and can't make a solid, intelligent argument, they tend to SHOUT. That's a lot of what we're hearing--the "Aztlan" people SHOUTING at the anti-illegal racists, who are SHOUTING back at them.....and both sides missing the point, that a nation, in order to exist, MUST have borders, which MUST be respected. That fact has nothing to do with race, ethnicity, or "group rights". It's just a part of our modern society, which is based on law.

Last edited by macmeal; 12-19-2007 at 08:46 AM..
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