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Old 05-29-2013, 04:23 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,918 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
There are plenty of ways around E-Verify and frankly anyone that are "directly" hiring illegals are not very smart anyways, and again do not forget the 40 percent or so that do have legit SS numbers. Also they may be enough in Congress to block immigration reform, but what makes you think there will never not be enough to block enforcement only reform? Its either a bill that includes amnesty or De-facto amnesty. Nothing else will ever happen.
40% of illegals have legit SS numbers? I can believe that 40% have forged/stolen/fake SS numbers, but no illegal holds a legit SS number. I think you are confusing the SS number with an ITIN number for tax purposes only.

E-verify is 99.6% accurate
Quote:
“The irony in the claim of unreliability of the E-Verify system is that it is not being made as an argument for improving the system. It is cynically being made by defenders of illegal aliens in an effort to prevent E-Verify from being expanded nationwide. They are trying to preserve job opportunities for illegal workers.”
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:27 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,918 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
That is not what I was saying. If employers go to a third party agent for workers they are not responsible for the status of those workers. The agents are. However most cases the agents are immigrants themselves and if caught are simply expelled from the country and sell the connections to other agents and continue to get a cut even when they are back in their home country. Most employers I know that utilize illegal labor do so through temporary employment contractors. Even some of the more known employment contractors use a string of other third party agents. Very rare does one of those agents get busted.
This is a good point!
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Phila Pa
2,546 posts, read 1,780,654 times
Reputation: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
40% of illegals have legit SS numbers? I can believe that 40% have forged/stolen/fake SS numbers, but no illegal holds a legit SS number. I think you are confusing the SS number with an ITIN number for tax purposes only.

E-verify is 99.6% accurate
No, those that come on long term visas such as a student or work visa are allowed to apply for a work permit and social security number. You can not work in the US without one. The government estimates that this group makes up 40 percent of the undocumented population. In the event a work permit expires the SS number does not become invalid. The two agencies are not linked together.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdf
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,918 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
No, those that come on long term visas such as a student or work visa are allowed to apply for a work permit and social security number. You can not work in the US without one. The government estimates that this group makes up 40 percent of the undocumented population. In the event a work permit expires the SS number does not become invalid. The two agencies are not linked together.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdf
Just because they can apply for a work permit and possibly receive an SS number doesn't mean that 40% of the illegals (visa overstays) have one since all that apply are not granted work authorization nor SS card. The govt places them in the 40% of visa overstays, not that 40% have valid SS numbers. Yes their SS number does become invalid at the end of their visa unless they re-verify work authorization this is a restricted SS number, there is a bolden red wording across the top of it. Types of Social Security Cards

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 05-29-2013 at 06:48 PM..
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Phila Pa
2,546 posts, read 1,780,654 times
Reputation: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Just because they can apply for a work permit and possibly receive an SS number doesn't mean that 40% of the illegals (visa overstays) have one since all that apply are not granted work authorization nor SS card. The govt places them in the 40% of visa overstays, not that 40% have valid SS numbers. Yes their SS number does become invalid at the end of their visa unless they re-verify work authorization this is a restricted SS number, there is a bolden red wording across the top of it. Types of Social Security Cards
You are absolutely wrong about the number becoming invalid. In example 2 of your link, the SS administration is in no way aware of when a work permit or visa expires. The different agencies are not linked up together. I know several Visa over-stayers, that have these cards, they use them for employment, bank accounts and file tax returns. The cards have no expiration date on them. They are suppose to present a valid work permit when they present the SS card, but many employers turn a blind eye to that. But the SS number will pass the E-Verify system.

My previous point about E-Verify is that it will never become mandatory without some sort of amnesty along with it. It is true there are enough in congress to block an amnesty, but there will also always be enough to block an enforcement only bill, as the Senate did when the house passed an enforcement only bill several years ago. The powers of pro immigration are much stronger then the anti immigration.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:07 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,918 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
You are absolutely wrong about the number becoming invalid. In example 2 of your link, the SS administration is in no way aware of when a work permit or visa expires. The different agencies are not linked up together. I know several Visa over-stayers, that have these cards, they use them for employment, bank accounts and file tax returns. The cards have no expiration date on them. They are suppose to present a valid work permit when they present the SS card, but many employers turn a blind eye to that. But the SS number will pass the E-Verify system.

My previous point about E-Verify is that it will never become mandatory without some sort of amnesty along with it. It is true there are enough in congress to block an amnesty, but there will also always be enough to block an enforcement only bill, as the Senate did when the house passed an enforcement only bill several years ago. The powers of pro immigration are much stronger then the anti immigration.
So I guess SSA doesn't know what they are talking about. SS cards do not have an expiration date, but they can become invalid. And the card (Valid for work r not valid for employment) in the E-verify system shows that it must have work authorization documents with it or it is invalid for work.
Quote:
Shows your name and number and notes, “VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION.” We issue this type of card to people lawfully admitted to the United States on a temporary basis who have DHS authorization to work.

Shows your name and number and notes, “NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT.”We issue it to people from other countries:Who are lawfully admitted to the United States without work authorization from DHS, but with a valid non work reason for needing a Social Security number; or who need a number because of a federal law requiring a Social Security number to get a benefit or service.
An employer that sees an SS card with “VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION.” must verify work authorization, I know because I have hired persons like that before. Once their authorization for work expires they must obtain a new authorization or they are released from employment. They must prove they have the authorization to work.

Those with the SS card labeled “NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT” can't work.

That number may pass e-verify, but the e-verify system is continuously working to ferret out these types of issues. Yes, ICE, DHS, DOJ, OSC and SS are sharing information through what are known as MOA's. USCIS - History and Milestones

Employers can not turn a blind eye to the SS card if no work authorization is presented with it, if the employer does then the employer needs to be fined and the SS card holder needs to be deported.

The powers of pro immigration are much stronger then the anti immigration. Is that why CIR has yet to pass? Must be why the DREAM Act never passed, too, right? Must be why states are passing laws against illegals, too.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 05-29-2013 at 07:53 PM..
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:32 PM
 
31,698 posts, read 14,614,583 times
Reputation: 8448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
You are absolutely wrong about the number becoming invalid. In example 2 of your link, the SS administration is in no way aware of when a work permit or visa expires. The different agencies are not linked up together. I know several Visa over-stayers, that have these cards, they use them for employment, bank accounts and file tax returns. The cards have no expiration date on them. They are suppose to present a valid work permit when they present the SS card, but many employers turn a blind eye to that. But the SS number will pass the E-Verify system.

My previous point about E-Verify is that it will never become mandatory without some sort of amnesty along with it. It is true there are enough in congress to block an amnesty, but there will also always be enough to block an enforcement only bill, as the Senate did when the house passed an enforcement only bill several years ago. The powers of pro immigration are much stronger then the anti immigration.
What does being pro-immigration or being anti-immigration have to do with illegal immigration?
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Phila Pa
2,546 posts, read 1,780,654 times
Reputation: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So I guess SSA doesn't know what they are talking about. SS cards do not have an expiration date, but they can become invalid. And the card (Valid for work r not valid for employment) in the E-verify system shows that it must have work authorization documents with it or it is invalid for work.An employer that sees an SS card with “VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION.” must verify work authorization, I know because I have hired persons like that before. Once their authorization for work expires they must obtain a new authorization or they are released from employment. They must prove they have the authorization to work.

Those with the SS card labeled “NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT” can't work.

That number may pass e-verify, but the e-verify system is continuously working to ferret out these types of issues. Yes, ICE, DHS, DOJ, OSC and SS are sharing information through what are known as MOA's. USCIS - History and Milestones

Employers can not turn a blind eye to the SS card if no work authorization is presented with it, if the employer does then the employer needs to be fined and the SS card holder needs to be deported.

The powers of pro immigration are much stronger then the anti immigration. Is that why CIR has yet to pass? Must be why the DREAM Act never passed, too, right? Must be why states are passing laws against illegals, too.
Your long winded post did not say anything I already did not tell you. As far as states and immigration laws , we will have to see the long term ramifications, economically speaking. I posted earlier in this thread how Major League Baseball has joined an already large group of those lobbying for immigration reform. Arizona keeps going the way they are, spring training baseball will eventually be no more, as far as Az is concerned.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:50 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
Do you live in southern Calif?
No -- I live on the border though - you can see the problem anytime you go to a grocery store when the food stamps are refilled.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:53 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
There are a good amount of the undocumented that have done 3 of the 5 things mentioned. They came on Visas so they passed a background check, have been filing tax returns and have learned the English language. That group should certainly be given priority over those that jumped the border.
They have zero respect for the immigration laws -- why should breaking the terms of the visa get them a free pass around the immigration laws? Border crossing cards are also a visa -- for a mere $149, many just get that card, move on over and figure they're not entitled. Many have not learned English and many haven't paid a dime in federal income tax.
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