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Old 11-03-2007, 11:47 AM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,148 times
Reputation: 1401

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I did not want to hijack the other thread, so I started this one instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
What makes me be intrigued of this post is that it was an American citizen who started it, why would an American think that their borders should be opened to help Mexican citizens who haven't even asked for asylum in the United States??

In 1985 we had a massive earthquake that reduced Mexico city to a pile of rubble, and we were able to rebuild it, of course we had help from America (a lot thank you!) and from other countries too, but it was mostly us Mexican citizens who took care of it and rebuilt everything, we can do it again!!!

topos (gophers) an specialized Mexican rescue team who goes deep underground to help victims who are trapped under piles of rubble still exists to these days and they always go to any part of the world that needs them.

we are not cripples and to be honest I feel offended if people thinks that.

there are also citizens from America that do wrong things in Mexico, they come illegally (some legally though ) fleeing from their country's laws, they hide in cities like puerto vallarta, abuse kids, kill people, rape persons, accumulate massive arsenals of weapons or are rude with the locals putting them down, but that doesn't mean that all American citizens are like that, neither all citizens from Mexico go to America illegally, burn flags organize marches demanding rights they shouldn't have (at least if they don't learn to respect and ask for them nicely first imho) and disrupt the peace and harmony, the truth is that the big majority of citizens in this country work hard, struggle everyday to make our country better, respect their neighboors, want their children to have a better future just like the majority of Americans.

Imagine how would you feel if a Mexican citizen, would think that all americans are pedophiles, rapists, racists or criminals when the majority of them are nice, well educated, altruist and honorable human beings how would you feel?
Traveling fella, I can only hope that I will manage to write this the way I mean it, and then you will read it the way I mean it.

I have nothing but respect for the Mexican people. You are right, your country is working hard to enact changes that have/will improve the lives of it's citizens. Mexican's have every right to be proud of the progress they have made; most of their success can surely be credited to the strong work ethics of the Mexican people.

But, there is a problem still.

The problem is that the Mexican government does not take care of her people. Mexico's economy is still too dependant on American cash sent home by Mexican's to their family members.

My question to you is simple. How do we help Mexican's in their home country? Instead of Mexican's coming to this country illegally, to work illegally, and take all the associated risks, how do we help them in your own country?

Why doesn't the Mexican government help her own people? In the United States we have social programs for the poor and uneducated. Mexico could do the same, is there a reason why the government has not?

Mexico is not a poor country, she is rich in resources, so why are so many of her people poor?

And most importantly to me, as an American, why am I expected to take care of Mexico's poor by turning a blind eye to illegal aliens?

Now, hear this cleary everybody: I AM NOT SAYING ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE MEXICAN! I KNOW THEY ARE NOT; but a great majority of them are. We can keep fighting the illegal alien population once they get here, or maybe, we can stop them from wanting to cross the border. There is clearly something not working right in either country or we would not be in this mess to begin with! Sure, there will always be some who think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but there should not be this great of an exodus from one country into another. What is so wrong that can't be fixed? And how do we fix it? And I mean that question for both sides of the "fence".
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:49 AM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,157,153 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by chele123 View Post
I did not want to hijack the other thread, so I started this one instead.



Traveling fella, I can only hope that I will manage to write this the way I mean it, and then you will read it the way I mean it.

I have nothing but respect for the Mexican people. You are right, your country is working hard to enact changes that have/will improve the lives of it's citizens. Mexican's have every right to be proud of the progress they have made; most of their success can surely be credited to the strong work ethics of the Mexican people.

But, there is a problem still.

The problem is that the Mexican government does not take care of her people. Mexico's economy is still too dependant on American cash sent home by Mexican's to their family members.

My question to you is simple. How do we help Mexican's in their home country? Instead of Mexican's coming to this country illegally, to work illegally, and take all the associated risks, how do we help them in your own country?

Why doesn't the Mexican government help her own people? In the United States we have social programs for the poor and uneducated. Mexico could do the same, is there a reason why the government has not?

Mexico is not a poor country, she is rich in resources, so why are so many of her people poor?

And most importantly to me, as an American, why am I expected to take care of Mexico's poor by turning a blind eye to illegal aliens?

Now, hear this cleary everybody: I AM NOT SAYING ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE MEXICAN! I KNOW THEY ARE NOT; but a great majority of them are. We can keep fighting the illegal alien population once they get here, or maybe, we can stop them from wanting to cross the border. There is clearly something not working right in either country or we would not be in this mess to begin with! Sure, there will always be some who think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but there should not be this great of an exodus from one country into another. What is so wrong that can't be fixed? And how do we fix it? And I mean that question for both sides of the "fence".
There are more American citizens of Mexican decent than illegal Mexicans.
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:50 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
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Dear chele123, let me reflect about all these questions you are asking me and i'll come with a reply

thanks for starting this thread

love and light!
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:54 AM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
There are more American citizens of Mexican decent than illegal Mexicans.
But how does that relate to this topic? Please read what I wrote!
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:55 AM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,157,153 times
Reputation: 138
I just quoted what you wrote. I was responding to it.
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:55 AM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,148 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Dear chele123, let me reflect about all these questions you are asking me and i'll come with a reply

thanks for starting this thread

love and light!
And thanks for reading and understanding my intent!
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:57 AM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,148 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
I just quoted what you wrote. I was responding to it.
Well ya, but, that doesn't answer any of my questions! I'm not trying to be flip or disrespectful, I'm looking for real answers from real people - not the extremist rhetoric I can find online.
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Old 11-03-2007, 03:42 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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I found the post respectful, well-written, and sincere. I'm hoping for some response to this thread. I'd suspect that some of the reason we haven't been able to "help" so far, is that there are powerful, entrenched interests in BOTH countries who are profiting handsomely by keeping things the way they now are.

In The US, certain business leaders see much value in a steady supply of hungry, docile, not-too-picky workers who can be kept in a legal limbo, so that they don't get too "uppity". It's an unscrupulous businessman's dream come true--to have a supply of workers that you "have something on" (their illegal status) to hold over their heads. Sure keeps down the complaining and "backtalk" you'd get out of American workers---particularly if you were planning to "underpay" them..

On the other side of the border, powerful, well-financed interests find much value in having a built-in "safety valve" in the US border. You can abuse people, keep them in poverty, and disrespect them without worry--because, before they become angry or desperate enough to turn against you in revolt or become violent, they can simply pack up and head north. This gets them "out of your hair", plus you can make sure they feel warm and nostalgic toward their "homeland" so they'll send home a steady stream of remittance money from "el Norte". For the unscrupulous Mexican aristocrat, illegal immigration is a wonderful way to get rid of your "problems"---meaning, your poor and angry people.

This is the powerful and evil system you're up against if you want to address illegal immigration. These rich wheeler-dealers in both countries don't care about poor Mexicans, or working Americans either. They're more than happy to let "the little people" on both sides of the border fight it out among themselves, while they play tennis.....
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Old 11-03-2007, 04:48 PM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,148 times
Reputation: 1401
Thank you macmeal! I suspect you are right in WHY this is going on. Seems fairly obvious that it is benefiting those that support it, while harming the rest. I have said on several occasions that I do not support the exploitation of the illegal aliens. I mean that when I say it. Neither government seems interested in doing anything, so how can we - the little people - work together to do what our governments won't do? How do we - the little people - get our governments to do what they are supposed to do? I know what works to a point in the United States - threaten their jobs, take away votes, squeak the wheel, but I feel like none of that will work if we are looking for only one sided solutions. But, what if we were looking for mutual solutions from both sides? So, how do Mexican's threaten their government? (I hope you all know what I mean, cuz I lack the words)
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Old 11-03-2007, 05:14 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by chele123 View Post
Thank you macmeal! I suspect you are right in WHY this is going on. Seems fairly obvious that it is benefiting those that support it, while harming the rest. I have said on several occasions that I do not support the exploitation of the illegal aliens. I mean that when I say it. Neither government seems interested in doing anything, so how can we - the little people - work together to do what our governments won't do? How do we - the little people - get our governments to do what they are supposed to do? I know what works to a point in the United States - threaten their jobs, take away votes, squeak the wheel, but I feel like none of that will work if we are looking for only one sided solutions. But, what if we were looking for mutual solutions from both sides? So, how do Mexican's threaten their government? (I hope you all know what I mean, cuz I lack the words)
I wish I knew...a sort of bi-national informal "TravellingFellah" type forum might help, but there would be language problems..You'd have to overcome lots of prejudice on both sides, which has been exacerbated recently due to a tightening economy. You'd have to frankly address the complex history between the two nations. You'd have to work around cultural misconceptions on BOTH sides.....and on the US side, I still say you'd have to abandon ideas of multiculturalism, and honestly admit that no nation can really have "multiple cultures" and do justice to ANY of them (so far, the Mexicans at least haven't picked up this silliness---at this time, they're still proud to be Mexicans). Perhaps we could take a lesson from them, decide that we up here (ALL of us) are going to be "proud Americans", and take it from there...

Other than that, I don't know how you'd do it, really---but your thread is a start....
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