U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:28 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
"They" are not a positive (financial) contribution to our economy - in the case of the State of Arizona, illegals contributed through all forms of taxes to the State, some $300 million dollars. Yet, the costs (tax) to provide services for illegals, in all forms, was $1.4 Billion - a net loss of, as I previously stated, of over $1 Billion dollars.

The appropriation of some $15 million dollars to support law enforcement efforts is already showing a "return" as there has been a marked reduction in costs directly attributed to illegal immigrants.

In January, the new employer sanctions law takes effect. And, even though it has not yet gone into effect, the impact is already being felt - many illegals are leaving this state and, more jobs are actually becoming available for those here legally - as it should be.
If "they" do not provide a positive financial contribution to our economy, why do we have the largest economy in the world? Why would the private business sector be willing to employ them, if they were not contributing to the bottom line?

 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
You may have noticed that I have not had to resort to ad hominems in order to resort to the fallacy of argumentum ad populum, either.
You may have noticed that I post(ed) facts that you retorted with your ad hominem attacks -
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
If "they" do not provide a positive financial contribution to our economy, why do we have the largest economy in the world?
Are you suggesting that ours is the largest economy in the world because of illegal immigration???

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Why would the private business sector be willing to employ them, if they were not contributing to the bottom line?
Please, re-read my previous post(s) - I clearly spoke about costs to the TAXPAYERS - not an individual business
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:34 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,059,856 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
If "they" do not provide a positive financial contribution to our economy, why do we have the largest economy in the world?
The size of the economy is a combination of several factors. That we have the world's largest economy does not indicate a lack of phenomena that drain this economy.
Quote:
Why would the private business sector be willing to employ them, if they were not contributing to the bottom line?
You answered your own question - profits. The economy consists of more than profits, most notably - taxation.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:35 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
How many of the illegal immigrants you're advocating are responsible for those gun related deaths? Or disease? Or Rape? Or child molestation? How many people die from diabetes and heart disease? Should we outlaw McDonalds? Your ideas and comparisions are your attempt to create a diversion and confusion of the real issue, which, in case you forgot, is illegal immigration, which is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. It's destroying middle class America. And you my friend are misinterpreting the constitution. You are manipulating it to say what you want it to say, many criminals and religous extremists do the same thing with the bible. Just so you know, I'm not fooled. I know what the constitution says and how it was intended to read, and I will never buy your defense lawyer tactic of trying to twist it to say something it doesn't.
Many things are illegal. Bearing false witness is immoral, if not illegal. Do you also advocate reconstituting the Templars and the Dominicans to stop the wave of imperilment to our collective immortal souls, as well?

More crime is committed, in the US, by legals than by illegals. The same can be said of all of the other statistics you are trying to blame on black market migrant labor participants.

Illegal immigration is a misnomer. The actual act is crossing the border without inspection and no worse than jaywalking across state lines. Your trying to make it appear as if all of the evils in the US are caused by illegals is even more, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I am only stating what is in the Constitution, you are welcome to read it yourself so that you won't fall into the same trap as many people who are used to using the fallacy of argumentum ad populum.

Last edited by danielpalos; 11-05-2007 at 01:43 PM..
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:36 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You may have noticed that I post(ed) facts that you retorted with your ad hominem attacks -
Can you quote me on that, or are you merely using another fallacy to make a point you don't have? The only facts you posted are the result of current mediocre public policy. With more market friendly public policy, we could be reducing public and private sector costs from the revenue raised from such programs. And, you wouldn't have to complain about illegals anymore.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:39 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Are you suggesting that ours is the largest economy in the world because of illegal immigration???

Please, re-read my previous post(s) - I clearly spoke about costs to the TAXPAYERS - not an individual business
I am suggesting that we have one of the largest economies in the world, due in part, to current employment practices regarding black market labor participation. I am not saying it is the most efficient, I am saying that a market friendly work visa system could achieve better results than our current system, and you won't have to complain about illegals anymore. Why do you have a problem with that, if you are only concerned about the crime of illegals jaywalking across state lines.

More market friendly public policy could also reduce our tax burden. Why do you have a problem with that?
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:42 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,059,856 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
The actual act is crossing the border without inspection and no worse than jaywalking across state lines.
What on earth is "jaywalking across state lines?" Last I checked, jaywalking was the act of crossing a street at an undesignated point.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Why do you have a problem with that, if you are only concerned about the crime of illegals jaywalking across state lines.
Once again, you misstate my position in a blatant attempt to spin (alter) my position to meet your own political agenda - for, I am not "only concerned with " ..

And, it is not "jaywalking" (your term) - it is illegal immigration - and, that is what is stated in the law -

I am concerned about:

Criminal activity of those here illegally (I posted a link to a recent example)

Net cost to the taxpayers for services provided to those here illegally

The impact of illegal immigration on national security

United States Sovereignty

The degrading of communities due to illegal immigration

And more
 
Old 11-05-2007, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,156 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Many things are illegal. Bearing false witness is immoral, if not illegal. Do you also advocate reconstituting the Templars and the Dominicans to stop the wave of imperilment to our collective immortal souls, as well?

More crime is committed, in the US, by legals than by illegals. The same can be said of all of the other statistics you are trying to blame on black market migrant labor participants.

Illegal immigration is a misnomer. The actual act is crossing the border without inspection and no worse than jaywalking across state lines. Your trying to make it appear as if all of the evils in the US are caused by illegals is even more, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I am only stating what is in the Constitution, you are welcome to read it yourself so that you won't fall into the same trap as many people who are used to using the fallacy of argumentum ad populum.
Please don't put words in my mouth, that makes me angry. I never said Citizens don't commit crimes, I said illegals shouldn't be here in the first place to commit them. America has their own criminals, it doesn't need Mexico's. More crime volume is done by citizens, naturally because we have more population. If you want to compare: Number of American citizens/ number of crimes commited by American citizens, to: Number of illegals/crimes commited by illegals, that's where the numbers don't lie. And never once did I say anything remotely close to "all evils in the US are caused by illegals", obviously that's not our only problem, but it is a major problem and the one we're discussing in this forum. Stay on topic, please.
I my friend have read the constitution in it's entirety, and I do not read what you read. It's your interpretation. I find it disturbing to know there are people in the country with this way of thinking. Your argument is ridiculous. You try to use big words and terms to make yourself look smart, but no one is fooled. The only thing in the constitution you really understand is your right to free speech. Think or say whatever you like, bottom line is the majority of this country is tired of the illegal immigrant problem, and when it comes down to a vote, you will be out voted. Too bad so sad for you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top