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Old 11-05-2007, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,357,433 times
Reputation: 4893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
How will an incurred cost save money? Don't costs usually cost money? As an example, how much are we saving on the drug war with 60 billion in enforcement costs?
You did not major in math it seems Daniel -

The State of AZ spends 10 million dollars to reduce illegal immigration. By doing so, they reduce their previously needed expenditures - the cost of providing services to illegals, by over 1 Billion dollars

So - the state allocates 10 million for enforcement OR they have to allocate 1.3 Billion dollars for services to illegals.

Which is Better Daniel?

 
Old 11-05-2007, 07:49 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,097,924 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Daniel - I gave you the exact scenario as to how the Employer Sanctions law came about in AZ. Do you approve of the law inasmuch as it occured by way of citizens petitioning their government?
How does your view account for Article 1
Quote:
Section 10
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
The Ninth Amendment implies a reserved power to the individual to create social contracts and obligations (that may result in employment), in a manner of their own choosing; especially, if there is no constitutionally enumerated power delegated to the states authorizing a nanny state to tell employers how to attend to their own private profit motive.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
A market friendly work visa will accomplish the same thing, only it will also reduce public and private sector costs in the process. Prohibition did not work before. Why do you think it will work now? Even the evil drug empire knows what you prohibitionists seem to not know, even though it is in black and white in our history books.
prohibitionist? Thats a first for me.
Why should we make a special visa for them? The illegals have forced many legal americans out of jobs by low balling, Many have committed fraud, identity theft and of course tax evasion. We should now reward them?
Bank robbers should also be given a free 1000.00 savings account because they only did what they felt they needed too. If banks were so stingy with their cash these crooks wouldnt have had to rob them in the first place...
Forget free passes... They have made their statement.... They have demonstrated who and what they are by violating our trust, our laws, and our sovernty. WE OWE THEM NOTHING..
 
Old 11-05-2007, 07:55 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,097,924 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You have to look at the amount that the STATE will spend on the issue Daniel - not the Feds

As for California, they will spend far less than 10 Billion Dollars to reduce illegal immigration in the State
You are taking about yearly costs. A market friendly work visa program could generate revenue without also incurring frictional unemployment costs to the individual and the employer.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 07:56 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,097,924 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
prohibitionist? Thats a first for me.
Why should we make a special visa for them? The illegals have forced many legal americans out of jobs by low balling, Many have committed fraud, identity theft and of course tax evasion. We should now reward them?
Bank robbers should also be given a free 1000.00 savings account because they only did what they felt they needed too. If banks were so stingy with their cash these crooks wouldnt have had to rob them in the first place...
Forget free passes... They have made their statement.... They have demonstrated who and what they are by violating our trust, our laws, and our sovernty. WE OWE THEM NOTHING..
You are losing credibility with your line of reasoning. How do you compare a form of jaywalking to bank robbery, if you are not resorting to red herrings?
 
Old 11-05-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,357,433 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
You are taking about yearly costs.
That is the way states budget - annually
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
You are losing credibility with your line of reasoning. How do you compare a form of jaywalking to bank robbery, if you are not resorting to red herrings?
I am comparing fraud, identity theft, and tax evasion...
I am comparing stealing a persons livelyhood from them by lowballing. Its easy to do it cheap when you dont have taxes to worry about.
Or do you believe the legal americans forced out of construction jobs quit because they were lazy?
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:02 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,097,924 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You did not major in math it seems Daniel -

The State of AZ spends 10 million dollars to reduce illegal immigration. By doing so, they reduce their previously needed expenditures - the cost of providing services to illegals, by over 1 Billion dollars

So - the state allocates 10 million for enforcement OR they have to allocate 1.3 Billion dollars for services to illegals.

Which is Better Daniel?
Where are you getting your numbers from? Can you cite your sources?

How is that savings, better than a market friendly work visa program that will generate fine revenue on approximately 12 million people and which could provide for forms of insurance that could further reduce costs to the taxpayer?

Consider the analogy to an amusement park and the concept of buying a form of visa for admittance. There are six billion people on the planet who could, in theory, purchase a work visa; even if they never visit or become residents.

In any event, a market friendly work visa program is more compatible with our Bill of Rights. Can you place a value on our Bill of Rights, or do you propose we become the evil communist empire we fought a Cold War with?
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Another issue you seem to disregard daniel is these people have had no medical check, no back ground checks. They in fact present a danger to everyone that comes into contact with them. TB being pretty high on the list.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:08 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,097,924 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I am comparing fraud, identity theft, and tax evasion...
I am comparing stealing a persons livelyhood from them by lowballing. Its easy to do it cheap when you dont have taxes to worry about.
Or do you believe the legal americans forced out of construction jobs quit because they were lazy?
A market friendly work visa program could also help provide for frictional unemployment benefits for displaced American workers who would then be free to go to school, pursue the arts, or happiness. All you offer is a form of hatred that is not very Christian-like, and could be considered a form of hypocrisy to your pledge of allegiance to One nation "under God".
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