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Old 11-05-2007, 08:09 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,100,935 times
Reputation: 479

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Another issue you seem to disregard daniel is these people have had no medical check, no back ground checks. They in fact present a danger to everyone that comes into contact with them. TB being pretty high on the list.
A market friendly work visa could also collect biometrics and incorporate forms of insurance to reduce their burden to you.

 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,383,060 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Where are you getting your numbers from? Can you cite your sources?

How is that savings, better than a market friendly work visa program that will generate fine revenue on approximately 12 million people and which could provide for forms of insurance that could further reduce costs to the taxpayer?

Consider the analogy to an amusement park and the concept of buying a form of visa for admittance. There are six billion people on the planet who could, in theory, purchase a work visa; even if they never visit or become residents.

In any event, a market friendly work visa program is more compatible with our Bill of Rights. Can you place a value on our Bill of Rights, or do you propose we become the evil communist empire we fought a Cold War with?
Az Dept of Economic Security

And Daniel - we do not have, nor will have anytime in the foreseeable future, a "market friendly work visa program" - get use to it - deal in today - in reality Daniel -

Illegal Immigration costs the taxpayers of this nation 100's of Billions of Dollars (nationwide) each and every year.

They take jobs from lawful residents - that is a proven fact - Americans should be first Daniel -

We have the right to protect our borders - and that is what the Minutemen are helping to do - that is a fact

Fences are going up along the border - increased law enforcement is happening - our military is patrolling the border - employer sanctions laws are cropping up all over the country. In excess of 80% of Americans want stricter border security.

Regardless of where you go in this country, laws / policies restricting access to taxpayer funded services are being denied to illegals (as they should be)

The Anchor Baby law will most likely be modified in the next session of the Congress

And more - much more

The above is reality Daniel - the REAL world -

I'm sorry you don't like it but, that is just the way it is.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,383,060 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
A market friendly work visa could also collect biometrics and incorporate forms of insurance to reduce their burden to you.
You don't also advocate Universal Health Insurance too - do you Daniel?
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:43 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,100,935 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Az Dept of Economic Security

And Daniel - we do not have, nor will have anytime in the foreseeable future, a "market friendly work visa program" - get use to it - deal in today - in reality Daniel -

Illegal Immigration costs the taxpayers of this nation 100's of Billions of Dollars (nationwide) each and every year.

They take jobs from lawful residents - that is a proven fact - Americans should be first Daniel -

We have the right to protect our borders - and that is what the Minutemen are helping to do - that is a fact

Fences are going up along the border - increased law enforcement is happening - our military is patrolling the border - employer sanctions laws are cropping up all over the country. In excess of 80% of Americans want stricter border security.

Regardless of where you go in this country, laws / policies restricting access to taxpayer funded services are being denied to illegals (as they should be)

The Anchor Baby law will most likely be modified in the next session of the Congress

And more - much more

The above is reality Daniel - the REAL world -

I'm sorry you don't like it but, that is just the way it is.
All you are telling me, is that given a market friendly solution to a problem, you would rather use the coercive use of force of the state to achieve limited objectives.

What does that say about the moral character of people who have pledged allegiance to one nation "under God"? Why bother having that phrase in the pledge, if it is only rhetoric.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:45 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,100,935 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You don't also advocate Universal Health Insurance too - do you Daniel?
It would only be universal to the extent it incorporates forms of insurance, and people purchase the work visa. In practice, it could involve some form of high deductible plan to reduce public and private sector costs.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 08:48 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,094 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
You are losing credibility with your line of reasoning. How do you compare a form of jaywalking to bank robbery, if you are not resorting to red herrings?
How do you compare illegal immigration to jaywalking? I'll explain it again, make sure you're listening this time. ARE YOU LISTENING? ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION THIS TIME?

The problem is not them crossing the border. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THAT! IF THEY WANT TO RUN BACK AND FORTH ACROSS THE BORDER LINE ALL NIGHT NO ONE WOULD CARE! The problem is the tax expense, disease, loss of American jobs and increased crime rate that occur with them living here ILLEGALLY! Grant them work visas, and they are still taking American jobs, still raising the crime rate, and still bringing disease. What exactly is your agenda? Are you all for open borders? Do you not feel it wrong for Mexicans to skip the process while those from Europe and Asia EARN CITIZENSHIP LEGALLY? How do you not see $10 million in enforcement efforts as a savings to $1.3 BILLION in what the illegals cost us now? What did you not understand about getting rid of the illegals' free ride causing them to self deport, COSTING US NOTHING? Please, try to make sense of your thinking to me. And please, pretty please don't just repeat the exact same phrases you have said 30 other times in this thread already.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,043,693 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking209 View Post
How do you compare illegal immigration to jaywalking? I'll explain it again, make sure you're listening this time. ARE YOU LISTENING? ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION THIS TIME?

The problem is not them crossing the border. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THAT! IF THEY WANT TO RUN BACK AND FORTH ACROSS THE BORDER LINE ALL NIGHT NO ONE WOULD CARE! The problem is the tax expense, disease, loss of American jobs and increased crime rate that occur with them living here ILLEGALLY! Grant them work visas, and they are still taking American jobs, still raising the crime rate, and still bringing disease. What exactly is your agenda? Are you all for open borders? Do you not feel it wrong for Mexicans to skip the process while those from Europe and Asia EARN CITIZENSHIP LEGALLY? How do you not see $10 million in enforcement efforts as a savings to $1.3 BILLION in what the illegals cost us now? What did you not understand about getting rid of the illegals' free ride causing them to self deport, COSTING US NOTHING? Please, try to make sense of your thinking to me. And please, pretty please don't just repeat the exact same phrases you have said 30 other times in this thread already.
To clear up any misunderstanding, the computer was logged on to my brother's email. The above came from me.
 
Old 11-05-2007, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,383,060 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
All you are telling me, is that given a market friendly solution to a problem, you would rather use the coercive use of force of the state to achieve limited objectives.
The phrase "under God" has nothing to do with securing our nations borders Daniels - NOTHING -

Do I support amending our laws as I noted? Yes - without question. As do a majority of Americans
 
Old 11-05-2007, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,383,060 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
It would only be universal to the extent it incorporates forms of insurance, and people purchase the work visa. In practice, it could involve some form of high deductible plan to reduce public and private sector costs.
Huh????

Do you have legitmate links to such proposals and how it would be implemented?
 
Old 11-05-2007, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,895,723 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
A market friendly work visa program could also help provide for frictional unemployment benefits for displaced American workers who would then be free to go to school, pursue the arts, or happiness. All you offer is a form of hatred that is not very Christian-like, and could be considered a form of hypocrisy to your pledge of allegiance to One nation "under God".
Your logic eludes me. You wish to reward criminal behavior by granting a visa to the ones who have committed crimes. ie ID theft, tax evasion, fraud etc.
You wish to reward those who have stolen livelyhoods from honest citizens.
I on the other hand can empathize with the plight of mexico's poor, but first and always care about the plight of my fellow americans first. truth be known I care about americans first and only want to help all americans first. Once all americans are stable and well off can we afford to try and help others.
No way should we give rewards to those with so little regard for their would be benifactors. They have helped to create the very hell from which they flee, let them fix their problems rather than inflict yet more problems upon us.
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