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Old 11-07-2007, 01:34 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,061,455 times
Reputation: 2049

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
You point is only valid if you also consider paying a fine on a fixit ticket to be the equivalent of rewarding someone for being an illegal in that instance.
Wow! Your analogies are mind-bending.

 
Old 11-07-2007, 01:36 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,061,455 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
We have a Ninth Amendment, and the states are specifically denied and disparaged the power to impair in the obligation of contracts (between private individuals that may result in employment).
What on earth does interstate commerce have to do with illegal immigration?

Furthermore, I'm certain you're aware that a contract entered into illegally is null and void?
 
Old 11-08-2007, 08:51 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,884 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisLord View Post
Carefully read the original post, SimpleMan. You can be an anti-illegal immigration activist and still not be associated as a Minutmen.
I think the Minutemen are only misguided in their mission.

They would be much more useful if they offered gun safety classes to gun lovers, and assisted local law enforcement efforts, whenever additional manpower can make the most difference in the least amount of time.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 08:54 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,884 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
You will obviously never accept the information that many, many people on here have presented you with. The fact that NOT ONE person has agreed with your point of view should tell you something. It's clear to me that trying to reason with you will get me nor anyone else on this thread anything but aggrevation, so I am done with you. Good day.
You may have missed the point. Where in the US Constitution is any enumerated state or individual power to enforce US customs laws?
 
Old 11-08-2007, 08:58 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,884 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Uh...no. There are those pesky residence and work requirements that one must follow.

Your jaywalking analogy is fallacious. Going along the same lines, a valid analogy would be walking to the middle of the street and refusing to move.

That states are not obligated says nothing about states' rights.

My oh my. What glorious demagoguery.
We were referring to black market labor participation, specifically. Simply being illegal to local laws is a local matter and does not require jaywalking across state lines, as attested to by many citizens who are also capable of illegalities, without having to jaywalk across a state line.

We already covered state's rights and powers specifically denied to them (the states) in the Constitution.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
I think the Minutemen are only misguided in their mission.

They would be much more useful if they offered gun safety classes to gun lovers, and assisted local law enforcement efforts, whenever additional manpower can make the most difference in the least amount of time.
Gun lovers are well aware of gun safety. Its criminals who seem to have a problem with not understanding basic safety. Such as never point your weapon at another person.
As much as I detest liberal anti gun mentality I would never point a weapon at one. Why? Because I am no criminal.
Some of the minute men have been heavy handed. I look at the cause. Just as Libs like to say they look at cause as to why illegals choose to utterly disregard our laws.
The minute men are fed up and frustrated with a system that refuses to enforce our standing laws in regards to illegal immigrants and drug mules crossing our borders. As citizens they have choosen to patrol our borders and to help prevent as many crossings as possible. They have in fact had an impact. I dare say more of an impact than our elected officials in the last year.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:02 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,884 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
What on earth does interstate commerce have to do with illegal immigration?

Furthermore, I'm certain you're aware that a contract entered into illegally is null and void?
Labor can be considered a form of commerce.

States do not have any constitutional authority to care if someone is from out of state, or from out of State. The authority to enforce state per capita customs laws expired in 1808.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:08 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,884 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Gun lovers are well aware of gun safety. Its criminals who seem to have a problem with not understanding basic safety. Such as never point your weapon at another person.
As much as I detest liberal anti gun mentality I would never point a weapon at one. Why? Because I am no criminal.
Some of the minute men have been heavy handed. I look at the cause. Just as Libs like to say they look at cause as to why illegals choose to utterly disregard our laws.
The minute men are fed up and frustrated with a system that refuses to enforce our standing laws in regards to illegal immigrants and drug mules crossing our borders. As citizens they have choosen to patrol our borders and to help prevent as many crossings as possible. They have in fact had an impact. I dare say more of an impact than our elected officials in the last year.
I don't consider a specific instance of a misdemeanor, the equivalent to an utter disregard for our laws. Especially, if employers are willing to hire them to work as hard or harder than you.

Prohibition only works against market forces for a short time. Why do you insist on wasting your time for such a limited objective?

A well regulated militia of minute men could provide a useful service to fellow citizens, in search and rescue missions, and in cases of natural disasters.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Labor can be considered a form of commerce.

States do not have any constitutional authority to care if someone is from out of state, or from out of State. The authority to enforce state per capita customs laws expired in 1808.
Staes do have a right to enforce tax evasion laws and prosecute those who commit them. By working without a valid visa thus not paying taxes. They also have a right to prosecute for fraud . By Using a false name or stolen identity once again falls within the the rights of the state. Checking for valid residency status or immigration status helps to enforce these laws. Bottom line is states and communities do have the right to pursue those who are here illegally. Perhaps not under immigration but for the plethera of other crimes they commit.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,366,957 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
I think the Minutemen are only misguided in their mission.

They would be much more useful if they offered gun safety classes to gun lovers, and assisted local law enforcement efforts, whenever additional manpower can make the most difference in the least amount of time.
A) There are no need for them to do gun safety classes Daniel. As I have previously pointed out to you, several times, there are gun safety classes available, in AZ, 7 days a week. OBTW, several of the minutemen I know are also gun safety instructors / NRA

B) They are assisting local law enforcement efforts - and many of the minutemen are doing search and rescue missions for those crossing illegally, in the desert, in the summer - and have been credited with saving the lives of a significant number of illegals.

C) The minutemen are VOLUNTEERS. The are spending their free time as they wish.
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