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That's the problem (among many) with the european union. You can't have a union with such a disparity of wealth. People from poorer Eastern European countries are flooding into these places and it doesnt help the countries they came from either, having so many of their young people leave.
Alot of people don't realize it but Western Europe receives a ton of immigration. Not just from Eastern Europe but North Africa and the middle east....
That's the problem (among many) with the european union. You can't have a union with such a disparity of wealth. People from poorer Eastern European countries are flooding into these places and it doesnt help the countries they came from either, having so many of their young people leave.
Alot of people don't realize it but Western Europe receives a ton of immigration. Not just from Eastern Europe but North Africa and the middle east....
In all fairness; place like the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovenia are closing in fast on Germany, Ireland, Spain, etc. in per capita income.
Although; I tend to agree with you about most of the rest of the Balkan nations.
You are right, those nations are doing well. I was more referring to the Balkan nations, Bulgaria, Romania, Belarus, etc. In time, these nations will improve but the more prosperous ones will be footing the bill. Although they won't improve if all their young people leave to get jobs elsewhere.
In all fairness; place like the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovenia are closing in fast on Germany, Ireland, Spain, etc. in per capita income.
Although; I tend to agree with you about most of the rest of the Balkan nations.
AzBear, I pick on you ONLY because you're convenient, but you've brought up a fascinating point with me. A number of years ago, after the "fall" of the Soviet Union and the 'freedom' of its former satellites, I remember reading a PROBABLY very UN- PC piece about the "new" Eastern Europe. The author suggested there was a "line" (can't remember what he'd called it) between that part of Europe that had a history of "Western Christianity" until Soviet domination, and that part just to its SE, ALSO part of the "iron curtain" which had FORMERLY been under the occupation of the "Ottomon Empire" (Muslim Turks).
The author asserted that the former "Christian"-dominated areas (Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc) were "blossoming" without the Soviets, and experiencing a "wonderful" new growth...while the former "Ottoman" (muslim) areas (Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Yugoslavia etc) were, in some ways, actually REGRESSING into chaos and poverty, now that the Soviets had left.
The article was written YEARS ago, but looking back, the violence in Romania, the bizarre "isolationism" of Albania, and the actual "dismantling" of Yugoslavia....and the prosperity of Hungary, Poland, etc, seem to bear this out.
Not very "PC", as I said, but the "gist" of the story was, the areas with a Christian tradition took well to freedom and independence, while the OTHER area suffered when it lost the "stern" hand of Soviet domination, because it couldn't cope with "freedom".
I realize this wasn't as simple as it sounds--for example, neither Yugoslavia NOR Albania were technically part of the "Soviet Bloc". Yugoslavia was an "independent Communist nation" and Albania was so completely isolated that its ONLY ally, for years, was Communist China. But they were both "communist".
In essence, the author was apparently suggesting that "Islamic culture" isn't very conducive to "freedom". A profound thought then, and all the more "sticky" in today's world.
Ever hear of this?....Comments on this, anyone?.....Am I remembering this correctly?
Well, it WOULD certainly help their cause quite a bit huh?
I fully admit there IS a strain of ethnic resentment at play in the anti-illegal immigration debate, in the form of being illegal AND flaunting the alien culture in the face of Americans.
They'd have 100X more sympathy and support if it actually made an effort to be like immigrants of yesteryear (and indeed, immigrants of today that DON'T come from Mexico and Central America). It's why I'd more readily support the illegal plight of Irish, Russians, Philippinos, Chinese.... who actually have the goal of assimilating into America, instead of recreating their homeland permanently in the United States.
After all, people from "overseas" CHOOSE America over any of their neighboring economic refuges, and that conscious choice leads to a desire to be accepted. People from SOB unfortunately just come here because it's the closest thing. They don't necessarily have to agree with ANY of the ideals of America. Just the money part.
Not quite sure about the Philippinos, they learn english as a second languate in their home countries because they know it will help them come to America and make money, that is their main objective, not assimilation. My wife is from the Philippines so I think I have a pretty good perspective on this. The Chinese want to assimilate only into wasp/uppity society, they don't really dig the Hispanics, Blacks, Jews and other ethnic whites because they think these groups are considered less of a value in our country. Very confucion thinking. Europeans are the only ones I have seen coming in to America with a willingness to accept all Americans as equals, and seem to be a bit more knowledgeable about civil rights and the value of human beings (no matter the kind). Our countries (current) consciousness and respect for life is what makes us great. Barack Obama may become president (Fantastic!), if the country where 1/2 Hispanic and Asian, this would never happen. If he is elected he may be our first and last black president.
The thing about eastern Europeans moving to western Europe is the fact that they are all Euorpeans. They look basically the same and will have no problem melting in in mass numbers. This is the only way mass migration can be acceptable in my opinion. I have no problem with other races/ethnic groups migrating into Europe, U.S., Canada etc. just in small manageable numbers that can be much more easily assimilated and most likely mixed in.
Barack Obama may become president (Fantastic!), if the country where 1/2 Hispanic and Asian, this would never happen. If he is elected he may be our first and last black president.
AzBear, I pick on you ONLY because you're convenient, but you've brought up a fascinating point with me. A number of years ago, after the "fall" of the Soviet Union and the 'freedom' of its former satellites, I remember reading a PROBABLY very UN- PC piece about the "new" Eastern Europe. The author suggested there was a "line" (can't remember what he'd called it) between that part of Europe that had a history of "Western Christianity" until Soviet domination, and that part just to its SE, ALSO part of the "iron curtain" which had FORMERLY been under the occupation of the "Ottomon Empire" (Muslim Turks).
The author asserted that the former "Christian"-dominated areas (Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc) were "blossoming" without the Soviets, and experiencing a "wonderful" new growth...while the former "Ottoman" (muslim) areas (Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Yugoslavia etc) were, in some ways, actually REGRESSING into chaos and poverty, now that the Soviets had left.
The article was written YEARS ago, but looking back, the violence in Romania, the bizarre "isolationism" of Albania, and the actual "dismantling" of Yugoslavia....and the prosperity of Hungary, Poland, etc, seem to bear this out.
Not very "PC", as I said, but the "gist" of the story was, the areas with a Christian tradition took well to freedom and independence, while the OTHER area suffered when it lost the "stern" hand of Soviet domination, because it couldn't cope with "freedom".
I realize this wasn't as simple as it sounds--for example, neither Yugoslavia NOR Albania were technically part of the "Soviet Bloc". Yugoslavia was an "independent Communist nation" and Albania was so completely isolated that its ONLY ally, for years, was Communist China. But they were both "communist".
In essence, the author was apparently suggesting that "Islamic culture" isn't very conducive to "freedom". A profound thought then, and all the more "sticky" in today's world.
Ever hear of this?....Comments on this, anyone?.....Am I remembering this correctly?
Remember the phrase: The powder keg of Europe?
That was directed specifically towards the Balkans.
For the record: with the exception of Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, etc. which are secular Muslim......most of the Balkans are Eastern Orthodox (Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc). Romania I am not sure about.
There is a Romanian Orthodox Church. I think most Romanians are Orthodox Christians. There are probably some Moslem of Turkish descent there as well.
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What's Your Take, AZBear?
