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Old 06-01-2013, 02:07 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
Even Nazi Germany had schools and hospitals and food. Just because another country has those doesn't mean people there have no ambition or reason to pursue a life elsewhere. I don't have a problem with my tax dollars spent on caring for people. It's better than the cost and futility in jailing them, killing them, surrounding the entire country with 30,000 foot high fences for hundreds of years just to be impractical and insensibly selfish.
But this is where you are very wrong -- Mexico has schools and universities. In fact Mexico has a growing middle class, very low unemployment, much lower than that of the USA.

This woman isn't coming here and cranking out babies she can't afford because her own country lacks schools, it's because it lacks all the freebies that she wants. Back home, she'd have to work for a living, here she can lay around and do nothing at all, those children get her a free pass around the immigration laws, and of course a very nice free life where she doesn't have to make any kind of effort at all.

God helps those who help themselves. If we're responsible for these incompetent people, then the least we could do is humanely sterilize them like we do our pets. This kind of irresponsible breeding just to live off handouts is going to create huge problems --- like sky high government debt and recessions.

 
Old 06-01-2013, 02:12 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
But there were impoverished Europeans instead.

I don't disagree with the fact that people have to be more cautious about producing children they can't care for. But it's happening, and they can't be left starving and diseased and homeless - undocumented or not. Humans are imperfect, circumstances happen that weren't foreseeable, and we take care of one another. We can't heal the problem by denying education and access to services that allow their situations to improve with new generations. Otherwise, the new generations will simply repeat the mistakes of the ones before them, the ones you think are problematic now.
If this woman were to be deported back to Mexico, she wouldn't have to die or starve to death. She would simply have to work for a living.

You bleeding hearts have got to stop viewing working for a living as something terrible or cruel.

You also have a very patronizing attitude toward Mexico and these other countries. These people can improve themselves by staying in school, not having babies with ever Tom, Dick and Harry that looks their way. Mexico's middle class is growing -- ours is not. Mexico actually offers plenty of opportunity but it requires a bit of personal responsibility and effort, especially a work ethic. The USA offers these people a life of doing nothing, not improving themselves but laying around collecting their welfare handouts.
 
Old 06-01-2013, 02:16 PM
 
1,163 posts, read 1,153,346 times
Reputation: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
Even Nazi Germany had schools and hospitals and food.
They had a very effective way of dealing with illegals, however, I don't suggest we follow their example.
 
Old 06-01-2013, 02:16 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Also charity begins at home -- we've got huge problems in our inner cities, we've got kids dying of violence because no jobs are available, programs like Job Corps are being cut --- the only things that can save some at-risk youth are now unavailable -- but instead we encourage the laziest and most irresponsible foreigners to come here and expect a life filled with luxury and free everything.

We need to take care of American kids first.
 
Old 06-01-2013, 02:36 PM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
Even Nazi Germany had schools and hospitals and food. Just because another country has those doesn't mean people there have no ambition or reason to pursue a life elsewhere. I don't have a problem with my tax dollars spent on caring for people. It's better than the cost and futility in jailing them, killing them, surrounding the entire country with 30,000 foot high fences for hundreds of years just to be impractical and insensibly selfish.
Most of these illegals aren't fleeing Nazism. You can't pursue a life in another country by not abiding by their immigration laws. What part of that aren't you getting? Who is killing illegals? They broke the law therefore they are put in detention. Just like American lawbreakers are. Where is this 30,000 ft high fence you speak of? There is nothing impractical or insensible or selfish about protecting our nation's borders from foreign intruders. We can only allow is so many "immigrants" without impacting our own citizens negatively or don't they count?
 
Old 06-01-2013, 06:54 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
The greed in this country is so absurd to me. In my culture, we are hospitable and respectful to all human beings. If you come to our home in need, so long as you don't pose a violent threat to our people or property, a public safety threat, we will help you and treat you as we treat our own. It's fair to have them learn to fish, grow food, sew, and build so that they would become able to sustain themselves beyond the hospitality we can provide. This is why I see very little wrong with helping people who haven't gone through filing paperwork, etc. I simply don't believe in it.

If people need help and you have the means to provide in a rationed amount that's helpful, then we shouldn't be selfish. Help them, house them without threat of prosecution, then they'll be more willing to accept the rule of getting papers. People become so lost in this nationalist, xenophobic rhetoric, they forget that the target of such are human beings also; it conditions you to dehumanize foreigners and it isn't humane nor sensible. But this is just my own opinion that America needs to be open to a different reality now.

Undocumented foreigners - "illegal immigrants" - will never ever cease entering this country, so a less restrictive and more welcoming resolve must be put on the table eventually, instead of hostility and denial of essential services such as health care, housing, and food assistance.
Your culture? So are you a foreigner in the US? You seem to think that illegals are incapable of life since you think they need to learn to fish, grow food, sew, and build. They already know how to do all that, they come to the US to make more, faster money then they can in their home lands.

There comes a time when that rationed amount becomes a way of life. Each child provides for more rations, when does it start to take away from the others? When has she had her fair share? Human beings are still animals, some seem to want for themselves vs some giving what they can to help; which is she?

She has yet to be denied any of those things, in fact she has over used her rations and has become a public burden. At which point do we stop the abuse?
 
Old 06-01-2013, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,530,139 times
Reputation: 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
But there were impoverished Europeans instead.

I don't disagree with the fact that people have to be more cautious about producing children they can't care for. But it's happening, and they can't be left starving and diseased and homeless - undocumented or not. Humans are imperfect, circumstances happen that weren't foreseeable, and we take care of one another. We can't heal the problem by denying education and access to services that allow their situations to improve with new generations. Otherwise, the new generations will simply repeat the mistakes of the ones before them, the ones you think are problematic now.
So, because its "happening" were just supposed to roll over and say, "Ok?" And again, how many checks do you PERSONALLY write every month to these poor families? Until YOU start, why should I? Or anyone else?
 
Old 06-01-2013, 06:59 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
But there were impoverished Europeans instead.

I don't disagree with the fact that people have to be more cautious about producing children they can't care for. But it's happening, and they can't be left starving and diseased and homeless - undocumented or not. Humans are imperfect, circumstances happen that weren't foreseeable, and we take care of one another. We can't heal the problem by denying education and access to services that allow their situations to improve with new generations. Otherwise, the new generations will simply repeat the mistakes of the ones before them, the ones you think are problematic now.
And there were NO govt handouts, you either made it here or you went back home.

They can be sent back to their home country, undocumented or not. Circumstance is nothing more then ignorance of ones own self. The problem is solved simply by sending her home, she can take her children with her or she can allow them to be adopted here, it's really a simple choice, it's just her choice.
 
Old 06-01-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
Even Nazi Germany had schools and hospitals and food. Just because another country has those doesn't mean people there have no ambition or reason to pursue a life elsewhere. I don't have a problem with my tax dollars spent on caring for people. It's better than the cost and futility in jailing them, killing them, surrounding the entire country with 30,000 foot high fences for hundreds of years just to be impractical and insensibly selfish.
People have the right to pursue life the way they see fit, they have the right to leave their own countries, what they don't have is a right to enter another country without authorization and partake of a system they have never contributed to. To live off another's prosperity, is theft.
 
Old 06-01-2013, 07:05 PM
 
Location: FL
1,137 posts, read 2,288,314 times
Reputation: 787
Thumbs down Disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with giving generous help to families who are poor immigrants; families who are poor, period. Why is there so much animosity about aid programs that help people, yet there's little outrage over the international military conflicts that are sucking up xxx% more of "your money" than aid programs ever have?
They are straining very thin resources, that is why we cannot take care of "them" no matter what. I cannot go into details but I see it often, yes they are hungry living in one room dwellings, stand up to sleep...Feel bad for them too but I am not responsible for them when they are draining our country into oblivion.
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