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Old 06-08-2013, 05:49 PM
 
62,931 posts, read 29,126,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
Conservatives are stupid for supporting a global economy but rejecting immigration. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Conservatives are rejecting "immigration"? Please, they object to illegal immigration which most Americans do whether they be on the right or the left.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:09 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,687,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
Conservatives are stupid for supporting a global economy but rejecting immigration. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I don't support a globalist economy that is only about driving wages to rock bottom and destroying our middle class.

Even so -- you don't see other globalist nations such as Mexico allowing in millions of people to come and take their jobs and government handouts. So you're mixing apples and oranges.

Canada is also part of NAFTA and globalism, but Canada has kept it's immigration laws. We're essentially the only nation on earth with no immigration laws (we have them but they're not enforced).
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,021 posts, read 14,198,297 times
Reputation: 16746
The imposed solution to the illegal immigrant problem is very simple, but politically impossible.

==> Abolish national socialism, it's bureaucracy, overhead, taxes, and other impairments upon American employers

Without the benefit of paying "under the table" for illegals, American workers would no longer be underbid.

However, there is another "voluntary" solution, equally improbable - withdrawal by consent.
Most Americans are unaware that participation in FICA (and thus the socialist tax system) is 100% voluntary.
“The Social Security Act does not require an individual to have a Social Security Number (SSN) to live and work within the United States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one...”
- - - The Social Security Administration

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ScottSSNLetter.pdf
-------
The burden on workers to support recipients:

Monthly Statistical Snapshot, April 2013
Number of people receiving Social Security, SSI, or both
April 2013:
All beneficiaries: 62.465 million total, 54.1 million SocSec only.
Aged 65 or older: 40.8 million, total, 38.8 million SocSec only.
Based on 115.9 million working full time, each recipient is supported by 1.8 workers.

8,830,026: Americans on Disability Hits New Record for 192nd Straight Month | CNS News

And, NO, participants did not "pay into the fund" and are "owed benefits."
That's a LIE.

Property Rights: The Hidden Issue of Social Security Reform, Cato Social Security Choice Paper No. 19
"One of the most enduring myths of Social Security is that a worker has a legal right to his Social Security benefits. Many workers assume that, if they pay Social Security taxes into the system, they have some sort of legal guarantee to the system's benefits. The truth is exactly the opposite. It has long been law that there is no legal right to Social Security. In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor,the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits."
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:52 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,899,930 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
If there is free trade eventually there will be free flow of people too.
Uh; I'm pretty sure the "free flow of people" is Ok between SOME countries that are close in culture and money. The US and Mexico ain't.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,277,139 times
Reputation: 28564
Here's what I'd do if I was in charge.

1.) End birthright citizenship unless one parent is a U.S. citizen or if the child would be stateless otherwise. (This is rare but it does happen.)

2.) Impose crushing penalties on employers who do not use e-verify or who knowingly hire illegals. 'Knowingly' would be interpreted as overlooking a failed e-verify check or a lack of documents. 3 strikes and your business and its assets are confiscated. If you are an individual citizen who hires undocumented labor, e.g. to mow your lawn or clean your house, on the first offense you will be liable for fines totaling 3x the money you paid to the undocumented workers, plus any state/federal taxes that should have been paid on those wages. On subsequent offenses, the amount quadruples for each offense.

3.) If you are picked up here, not accused of any other crime, and are undocumented, you are deported. Period. You are not held in a detention center and you are not put into the judicial system. You are put on the first thing smoking back to your home country. An automatic re-entry ban of 10 years is imposed. Your assets are confiscated. Your children are deported with you, regardless of their citizenship.

4.) Visas/passports will be checked on entry and exit. A database will be created that sends alerts to LE of all expired visas. If you 'self-deport' on a recently-expired visa, i.e. the length of the stay plus 10%, you're fine. Otherwise, we're coming to get you and deport you. (We don't want people to be afraid to leave just because their visa expired a few days ago, after all.)

5.) A national ID system will be created that will supercede state-issued identification. The national ID will have stringent standards for proof of US citizenship and they will only be issued to US citizens. Driver's licenses will not be acceptable forms of ID for financial transactions or procuring employment. The national ID would be required to access government benefits. No national ID, no benefits. Period. Illegals caught faking documents to obtain a national ID will be deported and banned for life. (That is the current penalty for attempting to pass yourself off as a US citizen if you are not a citizen.)

6.) Illegals will not be permitted to access publicly-funded higher education. A national ID, green card, other valid immigrant visa, or valid student visa will be required in order to enroll. Only US citizens/LPRs will be eligible for financial aid of any kind except for private scholarships; they can give their money to whomever they want, but it's doubtful they'd waste it on someone who can't enroll in school.

7.) Illegal minors will continue to enjoy the 'amnesty' they get from accumulating time towards a ban. Currently, time here spent as an illegal minor does not count against you. The clock starts ticking when you turn 18. That will continue to be the case.


That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure I could make a nice long list if I had a few days to think about it.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: The Great Outdoors
442 posts, read 800,419 times
Reputation: 575
^

Except it makes too much sense to happen.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,217,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Millennium View Post
Or shall we continue with the status quo? What does that solve? If there is a realistic solution I'd love to hear it.

The problem of illegal immigration is such an enormous epic fail on the part of our government. We're simply at a point of no return. Time to wave the white flag but make big changes moving forward. Securing the border being #1. Then taking some pointers about how other countries successfully and humanely enforce their immigration policies.

I'm not hysterical as some here... I don't think it's "the beginning of the end" of the USA as we know it.

Mexicans are some of the friendliest and hardworking people I've encountered growing up in California. Hardly the worst "invaders" we can have. The criminals and takers are the vast minority; unlike what seems to be depicted in this section.
Well I don't see rewarding criminal behavior as a realistic solution.
Your personal experiences are of no importance. Your friendly hard working illegals cost this nation billions every year. Your friendly illegals account for a good many violent crimes as evidenced by our prison population.
You friendly illegals commit ID theft, fraud causing legal citizens untold heart aches.
You can say the criminals are a minority and you would be wrong. 100% of all illegals are criminals.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:31 PM
 
3,183 posts, read 7,203,193 times
Reputation: 1818
Many years ago the Romans did not try to stop the illegal aliens from coming into their country..Rome was destroyed not by an army but by it not controlling the aliens.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,464,288 times
Reputation: 27720
Oh they are going to pass amnesty.
And there will be nothing done to prevent the next batch of illegal growth.

And they will flood the social programs.

And that is just the reality of what will happen.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:14 PM
 
Location: The Great Outdoors
442 posts, read 800,419 times
Reputation: 575
^Are they, though?

What with that immigrant teens thing getting rejected and whatnot.
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