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Old 06-18-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,718,247 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
While I don't agree with Boxer's perspective on immigration reform, I find her actions in this case far less reprehensible than the callous disregard for other humans as typically expressed by Coulter. There are ways to disagree with immigration policies without epitomizing offensively immoral human character in order to rationalize that disagreement.
Coulter has a "callous disregard for other humans" because she cites verifiable statistics? Where as Boxer simply wants to divert money form one thing that was promised to the American people to something that benefits illegal immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
And as I already said, that doesn't excuse Coulter's behavior and that of those who repeat or otherwise parallel her rhetoric.
Coulters behavior? Waht is her behavior when she cites verifiable statistics? You seem to be full of the rhetoric here.

Last edited by Yac; 06-19-2013 at 02:35 AM..
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:13 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,979 posts, read 30,230,881 times
Reputation: 17781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The non-sequitur comment you made was, "Makes you wonder why we are constantly being told that illegal aliens are a benefit to our economy." As I explained, it does not relate to the data you presented, which was about the percentage of poor illegal immigrants. I very clearly outlined how those on welfare very well could be benefiting the economy.

Do the research first, then "think yes". Add up how much illegal immigrants are paid for work, and then add in the value of public assistance, and I suspect it is still less than the average American spends just on housing. That difference, between how much their compensation plus public assistance is worth, and a living wage, is the amount of money each illegal immigrant is literally contributing to the economy, over and above that of a citizen doing the same work, earning a living wage and therefore not eligible for public assistance. If these people were just reading palms or doing some other activity that doesn't really contribute anything to society, perhaps you'd have a point, but many of them are involved in farming, picking fruit, planting crops, etc.

You missed the point: It isn't about their making slave wages... it is about the difference between them making slave wages and some American citizen making a living wage sufficient to stay off of welfare, themselves, and how that difference affects the US economy.

So why don't we put in place stringent enforcement of laws that ensure that all work done is done by citizens, paid a living wage, so that they don't need to be on public assistance themselves?
While you are adding up your tab make sure you include the costs of educating and feeding their children in public schools. And yes, it does matter because no illegals means no kids of illegals.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,718,247 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Why should I do that in a thread about immigration? If you're not aware of the recent history of our nation to understand the context of some explanations I provided with regard to why I projected a specific perspective with regard to the actual subject of this thread, then send me a direct message asking for assistance in coming up to speed on those details, and if I have enough time, I'll be happy to help you. Don't derail the thread itself.
Because you are the one making inane claims as if they were in deed fact instead of ignorance.

You have yet to provide any explanation, you have simply came in here and acted as if your comments are somehow the only comments that are worthy. None of your comments actually give any insight into anything other than your own ignorance.

You getting someone up to speed is laughable. You have simply derailed the thread all on your own with inept comments that have deterred from the original point of the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
Her proposal is to cover costs for uninsured immigrants, that not the same as illegal immigrants, although you probably think legal and illegal are the same.

Heck you probably think Hispanic = illegal.
So you are saying that once the illegals are granted legality they should be allowed access to programs that are intended for citizens and LPR's.

You seem to think that legality=citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Please explain what law or laws Glenda Bell broke. Is there a law against hard work, or generosity of spirit?

We, who care, say lots about economic inequality that has nothing to do with immigration. If you're not hearing us, then we need to talk louder, I suppose.
Talk about not having anything to do with the OP.

You espouse ignorance. Economic inequality? You limit it to only in the US, what of the rest of the world? Are they not entitled to better wages and living conditions? Does it not benefit the rest of the world to have a product made with cheaper labor so that others in the world can afford the product to possibly better their lives? You act as if US citizens are entitled to their jobs.

There is no law against hard work or generosity of spirit, Mrs. Bell broke no laws. Due to her paying into the Federal Insurance program throughout her life and the compensation package she received from Wrangler, she will be able to continue to live until she dies.

So, now what exactly is your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
There isn't a single person I know of who wants to, specifically, "reward" people that broke laws. So no matter how you slice it your comment is faulty in some substantive way. At best, it mischaracterizes what those folks you're referring to actually want. At worst, its patently partisan clap-trap. You cannot claim to bemoan the fact that people aren't focused on compassionate concern for others when in reality they are, and you're simply choosing to view their actions in some other manner, simply to cast it in a negative light so you don't have to admit their more honorable intention.
You do realize the the word "reward" has more than one meaning, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
There's enough blame to go around to preclude anyone from casting any aspersions on anyone else. There is no escaping, for example, the culpability of each and every American citizen with regard to how a significant amount of the food we consume is the product of the scurrilous exploitation of desperate illegal immigrant farm workers. Accessories to the offense, perhaps, but still culpable.
LMFAO. You know nothing at all. Over 50% of "farm workers" are citizens and legal workers. So "each and every American citizen" is guilty by association of the food they eat? This has got to be the dumbest comment I have read in a long time, well not since the last time I responded to your inept claims in another topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Then you're deliberately choosing a partisan and patently immoral perspective imho. Economic equality means that we all have equal opportunity to improve our lot in life and an equal opportunity to achieve a reasonable level of self-sufficiency with regard to the basics of life. The difference afforded one person versus the other with regard to capitalizing on the contacts and resources they have that other people don't have would therefore be relegated to relative levels of comfort and luxury above and beyond basic essentials, with that basic level readily attainable by anyone willing to work to the best of their ability and capability, regardless of whether they're lucky (which increasingly is becoming a minimum requirement for self-sufficiency among the working poor) or unlucky.
Then why are you hating on those in the Philippines who can now work at Wrangler? You are nothing but a contradiction in your inept comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The non-sequitur comment you made was, "Makes you wonder why we are constantly being told that illegal aliens are a benefit to our economy." As I explained, it does not relate to the data you presented, which was about the percentage of poor illegal immigrants. I very clearly outlined how those on welfare very well could be benefiting the economy.
So you think you are a moderator of sorts, to determine what is and what isn't relatable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Do the research first, then "think yes". Add up how much illegal immigrants are paid for work, and then add in the value of public assistance, and I suspect it is still less than the average American spends just on housing. That difference, between how much their compensation plus public assistance is worth, and a living wage, is the amount of money each illegal immigrant is literally contributing to the economy, over and above that of a citizen doing the same work, earning a living wage and therefore not eligible for public assistance. If these people were just reading palms or doing some other activity that doesn't really contribute anything to society, perhaps you'd have a point, but many of them are involved in farming, picking fruit, planting crops, etc.
What does it matter what the average American spends on housing? So now subsidizing an illegal with tax payer money, that they send back home, is beneficial to the economy? How about the tax refunds they receive at the end of the year over and above the amount they had withheld from any paycheck they may have received? Maybe you should do the research first before espousing total ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
You missed the point: It isn't about their making slave wages... it is about the difference between them making slave wages and some American citizen making a living wage sufficient to stay off of welfare, themselves, and how that difference affects the US economy.
Most illegals make more than a "slave wage". Research is your friend. Now, how about showing the math of their "slave wages". Here, I'll start:
Quote:
At his farm, field workers get $2 for every 25-pound box of tomatoes they fill. Skilled pickers can make anywhere from $200 to $300 a day, he said
That looks to be much more than a living wage to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
So why don't we put in place stringent enforcement of laws that ensure that all work done is done by citizens, paid a living wage, so that they don't need to be on public assistance themselves?
So if a citizen can receive public assistance, an illegal should be able to as well? Lets just abolish the US Constitution while we are at it.

Last edited by Yac; 06-19-2013 at 02:35 AM.. Reason: LEARN TO MULTI QUOTE. 5 posts merged
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:06 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,696 posts, read 8,215,942 times
Reputation: 8019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Coulter has a "callous disregard for other humans" because she cites verifiable statistics?
No. Rather because she engages in casual death-wishing for people she doesn't care about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
While you are adding up your tab make sure you include the costs of educating and feeding their children in public schools. And yes, it does matter because no illegals means no kids of illegals.
Indeed: If we Americans had to pay Americans living wages for all the things that illegal immigrants do for slave wages, it would indeed result in substantially higher costs for many things for all of us.

And I'm not saying that that would be a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Because you are the one making inane claims as if they were in deed fact instead of ignorance.
No I'm not. You just don't like that your precious preferences are being challenged by reasonable rebuttals. Get over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You have yet to provide any explanation
Of course I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So if a citizen can receive public assistance, an illegal should be able to as well? Lets just abolish the US Constitution while we are at it.
I skipped most of your self-gratifying nonsense to get down to this bit, which showed clearly that you didn't even try to read what you were replying to, given that I'm opposed to Senator Boxer's perspectives. Your comments are utterly clueless because they were not only arguing against things I didn't say, but were arguing for things I don't oppose. Congratulations... your comments have graduated from nonsense to utter nonsense.



How much more self-serving nonsense to plan to spew before you get back to posting your own perspective rather than whining about other people posting theirs?
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,949,288 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
No. Rather because she engages in casual death-wishing for people she doesn't care about.

Indeed: If we Americans had to pay Americans living wages for all the things that illegal immigrants do for slave wages, it would indeed result in substantially higher costs for many things for all of us.

And I'm not saying that that would be a bad thing.
The costs would go up. How much is debatable. I believe that greedy employers pocket the savings and don't pass it on to the consumer.
Your point about Coulter is valid. She does spew enough nonsense to fill a city garbage barge.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:15 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,696 posts, read 8,215,942 times
Reputation: 8019
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The costs would go up. How much is debatable.
If we forced every employer to take responsibility for paying people above-board, with paper trails and social security numbers, and we enforced the heck out of it, we'd actually find out.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,949,288 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
If we forced every employer to take responsibility for paying people above-board, with paper trails and social security numbers, and we enforced the heck out of it, we'd actually find out.
Yes we would and I for one would celebrate the results.
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