U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:10 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
And how exactly do YOU know it is widepread in Mexico? What exactly does "widespread" mean anyway - every person does it, every other person does it, one in ten people do it?

It may interest you to know that the USA has two and half times the rape rate of Mexico - so if it''s "widespread" in Mexico, what the heck is it here?

NationMaster - Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country

Rapes in the US - 0.301318 per 1,000 people
Rapes in Mexico - 0.122981 per 1,000 people

Yet again another ignorant attempt to categorize an entire country by the acts of a few. Just more fear mongering.

Ken
Here is one fact taken from the UNICEF website:

Quote:
The legal age of consent – the minimum legal age at which you can decide to have sex with someone – varies quite a bit around the world.

To give just a few examples of the heterosexual age of consent: if you are living in.... Mexico, (the age of consent is) 12. But 16 is by far the most common age of consent.
UNICEF - Voices of Youth: Explore

This is relevant to the discussion of illegal immigration. One is led to suspect that illegal immigrants from Mexico do not devote a great deal of time to studying the laws of the US prior to entering illegally. So here we have a significant number of illegal aliens from a country where it is both legally and culturally acceptable to have sex with girls under the age of 18. They may not be aware that the age of consent in the US is 18 or they may not care. What is accepted in their country is not accepted here. This 'cultural clash' as it were can have serious repercussions.

Two caveats:
1. I am not talking about all illegal aliens or all Mexican illegal aliens so don't waste your time going after me on that.
2. This is a situation where we should 'fail to embrace multiculturalism and all it has to offer'. IMO, sex with 12 year olds is unacceptable. Let the name calling begin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:19 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
18,946 posts, read 21,933,320 times
Reputation: 6537
Andreabeth -

True enough they MAY not know that the law says it's legal on at 18 here in the US and think that it's the same as it is in Mexico.

But the fact is, the same can be said for immigrants or visitors from ANY other country, for example, a quote from the source you just linked to:

"To give just a few examples of the heterosexual age of consent: if you are living in some parts of the United States, or in Egypt, it's 18; in Northern Ireland, it's 17; in Namibia, 16; in Sweden, 15; in Canada, 14; in Korea, 13; in Mexico, 12. But 16 is by far the most common age of consent."

Note that the age of consent is 17 in Ireland, 14 in Canada and 13 in Korea.

Why specifically bring this up in regards to Mexicans, when folks coming from other countries could just as likely make the same mistake. Again, why single out Mexicans in this regard?

Ken

Last edited by LordBalfor; 11-08-2007 at 09:27 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:56 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Andreabeth -

True enough they MAY not know that the law says it's legal on at 18 here in the US and think that it's the same as it is in Mexico.

But the fact is, the same can be said for immigrants or visitors from ANY other country, for example, a quote from the source you just linked to:

"To give just a few examples of the heterosexual age of consent: if you are living in some parts of the United States, or in Egypt, it's 18; in Northern Ireland, it's 17; in Namibia, 16; in Sweden, 15; in Canada, 14; in Korea, 13; in Mexico, 12. But 16 is by far the most common age of consent."

Note that the age of consent is 17 in Ireland, 14 in Canada and 13 in Korea.

Why specifically bring this up in regards to Mexican, when folks coming from other countries could just as likely make the same mistake. Again, why single out Mexicans in this regard?

Ken
Because Mexico provides the majority of illegal immigrants to the US. When people enter illegally, I think it is fair to say they are less familiar with US laws than people who have come here through legal channels. More Mexican illegal immigrants are likely to run afoul of the age of consent law simply because there are so many more of them.

This is from CIS. It is an estimate based on INS data (2000). It is simply not possible to come up with hard and fast numbers when dealing with illegal immigration.



Center for Immigration Studies

In Egypt the age of consent is 18, the same as in the US so there is no need to discuss that.
Northern Ireland, Namibia, Sweden, Canada, and Korea, are not even in the top 10 countries of origin for illegal aliens. Northern Ireland, Sweden, and Canada are first world countries with a relativley high level of education (compared to most of the world), let's throw South Korea in there too, so I do not think illegal aliens from these countries would be as 'unaware' of the need to abide by laws regarding age of consent as often poorly educated illegal aliens from Mexico. Namibia, I am not sure how that would play out BUT I do feel safe in saying the US is not being overrun by ilegal aliens from Namibia.

So if the problem is illegal aliens coming to the US and either not being aware or not caring that it is against the law to engage in sex with a person under 18, I don't see anything wrong with noting that a) Mexico provides the lion's share of illegal immigrants b) the age of consent in Mexico is 12. This situation provides the potential for serious problems in the US. This is my opinion. If my house, garage and toolshed are each on fire, I am going to put out the house first. Not be distracted by the toolshed while my home burns to the ground.
edit: If another country with an age of consent of 12 DID provide us with the majority of illegal immigrants, then I would substitute that country's name in the correct places in my post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 10:05 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
The fact is, you took my post completely out of context. I wasn't promoting illegal immigration, I was commenting on the following post:



This in turn was in reply to my post where I quoted the text on the Statue of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Obviously this no longer applies, eh?"

triMT7 had in effect posted that he no longer welcomes poor immigrants, and I replied back that obviously the welcome mat espoused by the Statue of Liberty was apparently no longer out for such folks.

Ken
Then you should have quoted triMT7's post rather than mine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 10:15 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
18,946 posts, read 21,933,320 times
Reputation: 6537
Andreabeth -

OK, I'll accept that.

Ken
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Wrong. I think legal immigrants ROCK. Without Ellis Island in 1900's, I would not be here. My father's parents LEGALLY emigrated through Ellis Island, successfully raised five children, two of whom fought in WW II and the Korean War (my father was one of those children).

I admire and respect legal immigrants. They want to be a part of this country so badly that they are willing to jump through each and every legal loophole that the government requires of those follow the letter of the law in order to come to this country.

I have a friend at school who is attempting to emigrate LEGALLY along with her 14 year old daughter. It is mind-boggling what the government puts legal immigrants through, yet they allow people to waltz across our southern border unconstrained and uncontrolled, undercut American wages, suck the American taxpayers dry, overwhelm emergency rooms and social services, and march down American streets by the millions demanding rights reserved for American citizens.

Gee, I wonder why every industrialized country in the world isn't lining up to pull in their fair share of illegal immigrants in order to "enrich" their own countries?
Great post..... My wife went through the legal forms of immigration. Tedious, redundant, and it can bare you to your soul. But its whats required. If so many millions can do it legally is it so unfair to expect everyone to do so also? Regardless of the illegals excuse they cheated. They by default are liars, and criminals. These are immigrants no nation would want or be forced to endure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 10:44 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Andreabeth -

OK, I'll accept that.

Ken
This relatively short so I'll post it:

Quote:
INS: 7 million illegal immigrants in United States
Mexicans make up nearly 70 percent of total, figures show

CNN (February 2003)

WASHINGTON (CNN) --More than a million illegal immigrants have slipped into the United States in the past few years, raising the total in the country to 7 million, the Immigration and Naturalization Service said Friday.
Moderator cut: copyrighted article
CNN.com - INS: 7 million illegal immigrants in United States - Feb. 1, 2003

This is from 2003 and things may have changed a bit since then, but the point I am trying to make is that the majority of illegal immigrants come from Mexico. Any discussion of the issue is at some point going to involve Mexico or Mexicans. I don't see how one can honestly talk about illegal immigration and leave Mexico out of it. Yet this is when the cries of racism, xenophobia, bigotry, KKK, Nazi, lazy and so forth begin. But you tell me, how do you discuss illegal immigration without in any way acknowledging the country that is providing the most illegal immgrants? If there were only 100,000 Mexican illegal aliens in the US do you honestly think people would be as concerned about this? See, I don't. Unless we are willing to take a cold, hard look at what is going on, things are not going to change. And frankly, I don't see how we can continue on like this without ultimately collapsing.

It's been a pleasure talking with you

Andreabeth

Last edited by Yac; 12-14-2007 at 02:32 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 2,972,613 times
Reputation: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Great post..... My wife went through the legal forms of immigration. Tedious, redundant, and it can bare you to your soul. But its whats required. If so many millions can do it legally is it so unfair to expect everyone to do so also? Regardless of the illegals excuse they cheated. They by default are liars, and criminals. These are immigrants no nation would want or be forced to endure.
My ex also went through the arduous process of obtaining a green card...and we had it relatively easy because he did not have to wait for a priority number from the US government, and since ours was a direct consular file to the US Embassy in London instead of an application to a processing center here in the USA, ours went faster than one would here in the USA.

For people who may not be familiar with how one gets a green card...

We first had to "apply" to "apply" for the green card, meaning you submit a petition (the I-130) to establish eligibility to apply for the green card. This costs money to file (we paid in pounds, I'm guessing it cost around 200-300 USD) and you have to provide proof of the petitioner's (me) citizenship and proof that a sponsorable relationship exists (in this case, marriage). This petition took 3 months to be approved.

After the initial approval we had to wait for a packet to arrive from the embassy in London. This took several more months. We filled out these biographical info forms and set about collecting the rest of the information for the visa, which included (but was not limited to): photographs, passports, his birth certificate, our marriage certificate, a certification from the police stating he had no criminal record, my last 3 years of IRS tax returns, valuations on our house, mortgage statements, bank statements, his vaccination records, etc.

I also had to fill out an I-864, or 'affadavit of support', which states that if my ex went on welfare, I'd get the bill. In order to support an immigrant you need to have an income a certain level above the poverty line for your household size (including the immigrant(s)). If you don't have an income in the USA (which I did not, as I lived abroad), your income earned abroad doesn't count for sponsorship purposes and you have to either get a co-sponsor or you have to have funds totaling 3x or 5x (can't remember which) the poverty level for a household your size. As I recall we had to demonstrate that we had access to assets in excess of $100,000, which is why we had mortgage statements and valuations on our house...to prove that after selling the house, we'd have so much in cash.

The I-864 is binding for at least ten years and only terminates upon the death of the beneficiary (the immigrant) or the death of the petitioner (me), or 40 consecutive quarters of paid employment by the beneficiary. Divorce does NOT end the binding contractual obligation spelled out in the I-864.

There was also the medical exam, at which my ex was tested for HIV, hepatitis, and had a chest x-ray taken. They also sent him a long questionnaire about his general health including any surgeries, addictions, mental health problems (including depression), etc. People are denied visas for medical reasons all the time. He had to provide a letter from his GP because he had had an episode of depression a decade ago. In it the GP had to state that my ex had not been suicidal to his knowledge and that he was not a danger to himself or others. People can be denied US visas for severe depression or suicide attempts. It does happen.

My ex got the green card in the end, but we split up and he has not taken up residency in the US. However, since his green card was activated by a visit here early this year, he is a US resident for tax purposes and the contractual obligations of the I-864 are in effect for me, meaning if he decides to come here and go on welfare, I'm screwed. Luckily if he does not actually LIVE in the USA and stays away for a year after the last time he left the USA, he would have to apply for a re-entry permit which, after the letter I sent to USCIS, would hopefully be denied. We're coming up to the one year anniversary of the last time he set foot on US soil.

This process lasted for over a year and cost thousands of dollars. Immigration to the USA is a lengthy and costly process even for people who are married to American citizens...at any point during the process the slightest mistake in filling out paperwork could result in a denial.

It *****es me off to no end that illegals think they can just STROLL across the border and DEMAND the same rights that medical and background-screened legal immigrants waited PATIENTLY IN LINE FOR. It DISGUSTS me. NO FREE PASSES FOR ILLEGALS. SEND THEM HOME!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2007, 11:31 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
The fact is, you took my post completely out of context. I wasn't promoting illegal immigration, I was commenting on the following post:

This in turn was in reply to my post where I quoted the text on the Statue of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Obviously this no longer applies, eh?"

triMT7 had in effect posted that he no longer welcomes poor immigrants, and I replied back that obviously the welcome mat espoused by the Statue of Liberty was apparently no longer out for such folks.

Ken

Talk about taking points, "out of context!" Or did you completely just glaze over the post without reading critically?

The United States has immigration laws because somewhere along the lines, law makers made a reasoned and calculated decision that the United States can afford to take in X number of immigrants a year in order to maintain sustainable development, envrionmentally, economically, and socially.

If the statute of liberty stands for the proposition that any and all of the 5 billion poor people in this world are somehow entitled or welcome to come live within the borders of the United States, then yes, lady liberty is obsolete.

Stop playing the emotional symbolism of Lady Liberty to make cheap points.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top