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Old 06-23-2013, 07:04 PM
 
33,499 posts, read 15,187,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Take away the incentives, that would work.

That being mentioned, the problems with unemployment go beyong illegal immigration. It's part of the problem. However,it goes beyond there. It is about employers looking for the cheapest possible labor force. When there was a crackdown on illegal immigrants in some states, farmers started to turn to prison labor.

Some tech companies are turning to H1B visas because the pay scale is less. This is how I see it. If an immigrant has a skill and comes to this nation legally, that person should be paid the same as someone who lives here already.

The main idea is that many business owners are after one thing: MONEY. Some of these politicians sit here and claim how much they care about immigrants. Deep down, they see MONEY. It is about businesses having access to cheaper labor. Many businesses want people whom they deem as pliable and acquiescent, who won't ask for decent pay. It isn't only about the incentives for illegal immigrants. It is about the businesses who want cheap labor.
And for some time now it has been about appeasing the ethnocentric type of Hispanic for votes. Since when have our politicians become so corrupt that they will thumb their noses at our laws for a particular group? What are the rest of us? Chopped liver?
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:12 PM
 
45,032 posts, read 43,806,823 times
Reputation: 14519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
And for some time now it has been about appeasing the ethnocentric type of Hispanic for votes. Since when have our politicians become so corrupt that they will thumb their noses at our laws for a particular group? What are the rest of us? Chopped liver?
It is about votes and money. There are both Republicans and Democrats who are soft on this. Furthermore, it is about the powerful. Those who have businesses that hire such persons will scream the loudest. It's a catch 22. If you're pro-business, the businesses will hire cheap labor. If you're pro-worker or socialist, the businesses will just leave and go offshore where there is cheaper labor. All some people care about is money.
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:14 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,362,393 times
Reputation: 22194
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Take away the incentives, that would work.

That being mentioned, the problems with unemployment go beyong illegal immigration. It's part of the problem. However,it goes beyond there. It is about employers looking for the cheapest possible labor force. When there was a crackdown on illegal immigrants in some states, farmers started to turn to prison labor.

Some tech companies are turning to H1B visas because the pay scale is less. This is how I see it. If an immigrant has a skill and comes to this nation legally, that person should be paid the same as someone who lives here already.

The main idea is that many business owners are after one thing: MONEY. Some of these politicians sit here and claim how much they care about immigrants. Deep down, they see MONEY. It is about businesses having access to cheaper labor. Many businesses want people whom they deem as pliable and acquiescent, who won't ask for decent pay. It isn't only about the incentives for illegal immigrants. It is about the businesses who want cheap labor.
I totally agree but I actually think using prison labor is a good idea. For one, one big problem with people who leave prison is they very often cannot get any kind of job, even those who want to work cannot work because they have no employment history and have a prison record.

There are fewer than 1 million jobs in agriculture today, apparently most illegals don't want to do that work either because with over 25 million of them here, farmers still have trouble finding people to do the work.

Plus work is therapeutic, it would benefit prisoners to get out of their cells and out into the outdoors and fresh air doing something productive.
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:29 PM
 
45,032 posts, read 43,806,823 times
Reputation: 14519
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I totally agree but I actually think using prison labor is a good idea. For one, one big problem with people who leave prison is they very often cannot get any kind of job, even those who want to work cannot work because they have no employment history and have a prison record.

There are fewer than 1 million jobs in agriculture today, apparently most illegals don't want to do that work either because with over 25 million of them here, farmers still have trouble finding people to do the work.

Plus work is therapeutic, it would benefit prisoners to get out of their cells and out into the outdoors and fresh air doing something productive.
Still, there needs to be work. And seeking cheap labor isn't helpful to those who need work.
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:40 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,362,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Still, there needs to be work. And seeking cheap labor isn't helpful to those who need work.
True -- and that's why Cesar Chavez demanded the borders be enforced -- he realized that illegal aliens were all for the purpose of bringing down wages and lowering standards in the work place.

Just like the UFW worked to end spraying farmworkers with pesticides while they worked, the big growers (Pelosi family for example) knew that desperate and illiterate illegals wouldn't object as much as the American workers.

Also those employers hiring illegals very seldom pay any social security tax or pay into workers comp for them, they use a hiring loophole that allows them to consider their illegals as "contract labor" which technically pay for their own worker insurance and pay their own social security tax -- including the employers' portion.

Those who hire illegals have a very great labor cost advantage over the law-abiding businesses.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:04 PM
 
33,499 posts, read 15,187,589 times
Reputation: 8877
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
It is about votes and money. There are both Republicans and Democrats who are soft on this. Furthermore, it is about the powerful. Those who have businesses that hire such persons will scream the loudest. It's a catch 22. If you're pro-business, the businesses will hire cheap labor. If you're pro-worker or socialist, the businesses will just leave and go offshore where there is cheaper labor. All some people care about is money.
If I had to make a choice between the two evils of illegal immigration and outsourcing I would pick the latter. The reason being is that we wouldn't have millions of people here in violation of our immigration laws and other laws and sucking up resources that should be for Americans. Either one of the two however leaves Americans jobless and apparently our government collectively doesn't care.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:01 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,122,044 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
SurveyResults




Do you believe that illegals should be given status to work in the United States after paying appropriate fines?
Yes
18,187(21%)

No
67,139(78%)




Do you believe the United States border with Mexico has been fully secured by the Obama administration?
Yes
3,400(3%)

No
82,651(96%)





After working in the United States for a period of time and paying fines, should illegals be allowed to apply for U.S. citizenship?
Yes
19,584(22%)

No
66,281(77%)

bbbbbut, the CBO and the Gang of eight say that it's a plus to legalize the illegals.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:06 PM
 
3,186 posts, read 5,558,220 times
Reputation: 1818
All aliens know that if they go to canada they CAN NOT WORK WITH OUT HAVING A CERTIFIED WORK PERMIT.. We need the same thing here.A very easy thing to do.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:24 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,362,393 times
Reputation: 22194
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
bbbbbut, the CBO and the Gang of eight say that it's a plus to legalize the illegals.
Yes and they showed no evidence of any kind. No break down of health care costs, costs to educate the children and other relatives the amnestied will be bringing in. They didn't show us how many illegals are nearing retirement age and how we're going to pay for their retirements.

Will retiring amnestied illegals simply be given social security checks, at least if they claim they stole someone's social security number 10 years ago? Or what if 5 illegals claim they used the same stolen social security number, will there be any way to verify which one actually stole it or will all 5 be getting a social security check for the rest of their days?

They never showed how much the background checks would cost but they haven't quite admitted there will be no background checks done.

And as much as they now claim we absolutely need millions of cheap illegal workers, they haven't explained what happens after amnesty when the cheap illegal workers are now legal and must be paid legal wages and of course can take jobs Americans want.

There is already something in there about welfare using illegals not having to pay any fine or fee, it's going to be just another freebie handout for them.

Like one of my neighbors who hasn't worked here but a very short time who lives off the welfare handotus her 4 US born children bring in, not one of the fathers pays child support, and she expects that after she's given amnesty that she can bring in her 16 year old from Mexico that she hasn't seen in over 15 years and both she and that child will start getting their own food stamps and get on Medicaid. She has no job of any kind. There's nothing about this bill that says she won't be getting in on this amnesty or would be deported.

In fact there is nothing in this bill about deporting the illegals that arrived here too late. Even those who are coming now to get in on it who don't qualify are going to apparently get to stay. They just won't be given legal status unless they can come up with the right documents from the black market which is already gearing up to supply fake documents the illegals might need to "prove" they were here before the end of 2011.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,054 posts, read 5,097,745 times
Reputation: 1382
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
bbbbbut, the CBO and the Gang of eight say that it's a plus to legalize the illegals.
And the Gang of 8 is just like a gang of bank robbers and they know it. Why are you so blind?
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