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Old 11-08-2007, 03:30 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
the ecoli outbreaks that affected the spinach crop came from cows, good old American cows.

I am not going to try to argue how hard the work is, I can tell you that I do not care what one did on a family farm, or how much hay one bucked, I can tell you that if you were harvesting corn by hand, ya'll needed to enter the 20th century.

I will state this simple fact; spend one day harvesting row crops and then get back to me.

Market forces dictate prices. Farmers don't decide what to pay, the market does, this is pretty simple economics.

Lettuce take just the Santa Maria Valley for an example. 27,000 workers are needed each year to supply the market with fruits and vegetables, just in that valley alone. half of that force is estimated to be illegal, the other half citizens. Each of those workers gets paid. Now, lettuce kick the wage up to one that would interest white Americans, surely you can see that the price of the produce will rise, now unless the wages of each field worker in America rises the same, then the grower in Texas who did not raise his wages will sell cheaper, and the Santa Maria grower will go under.

Now, lettuce say that we have kicked the wages all across this great republic to a level that interests white Americans. We now have another problem. Unskilled Whites are at the low end of the economic spectrum for sound Darwinian reasons.
I venture a guess based on experience that we will lose crops in the field as unskilled whites are slow, really slow with poor work habits.
Since much harvest work is piece work, the faster worker will make the money, that will be the Mexican. Farmers will replace their slow whites with fast Mexicans.

Now, you say that is "utter nonsense" well, it isn't. Why do you think white Americans don't work in the fields?

Again, the fittest survive, simple economics.

Ok, now you say, he is just pulling baloney out of his nose, well, no. Our farm has grown row crops for 98 years now on the Central Coast, believe me, if economics does not dictate an action, it does not happen, except by government dictate.
I pretty much agree with this "take" on the situation. Field crop work is nasty business, and there's nothing remotely "romantic" about it. Whites once did this work. They did it in a time in history when there was little "wiggle room" between working, and eating---or not working, and not eating.. There was no social "safety net", and lots of people, in those days, did lots of things we no longer do.

It's simplistic and misleading to try and advance the myth that "whites were once happily working in the fields, when-- 'bang'--along came some illegals and took their jobs away. Whites have never gotten over this, and if we got rid of the illegals, the whites would RUSH back to pick up where they left off"...

This is utter nonense. Whites don't pick crops for a variety of reasons, many of which are mentioned in greatbasin's post. Affluent people in affluent societies with generous welfare benefits seldom pick crops. That's not the fault of the illegals--it's the fault of the societal changes we've gone through in the past 50 years or so...

You could possibly replace illegals with legal "braceros" or some similar program--but you'll never replace them with American suburbanites. Field work just isn't "their thing"...

 
Old 11-08-2007, 03:39 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,706,920 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Since illegal aliens are unlikely to be committing white-collar crimes, that figure likely underestimates the amount of violent crime committed by illegal aliens. Using the GAO report, Representative Steve King of Iowa points out that 25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day (about evenly split between motor vehicle accidents and outright murder).

That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years!
your stat is double what a dozen or so websites claim, including that paragon of Truth World Net Daily....

Considering that there are about 16,000 murders each year in America, to claim that over one half or even one quarter are killed by illegals is not rational. Statistics brought out by fear mongers on this site show that 98% of illegals do not commit crimes beyond illegally entering the country.
Remember not wearing seat belts kills nearly 30,000 people each year.

If you have a problem with deaths by illegals, consider for the past 27 years Republicans have held the Presidency for 19 years. For the past 15 years Republicans have held Congress for 13 years.

Tinman, you made statements based on partial readings of my sentences, re read them. For instance I said nothing about Whites being at the bottom of the Darwin scale. Corn crops are mechanically harvested, home gardens may not be, however the discussion is of commercial large scale agriculture.

A short history of row crops. Along the Central Coast the first row crop workers were white, however they did not like the work and got out of it fairly quickly. The second wave were Japanese workers, brought over by the thousands in the 1890's on (when I was a boy we still had labor camps with tables 4 inches off the floor, although the camps were not used by the Japanese, the next wave were Filipinos, due to the same kind of racial hysteria drummed up today about Mexicans, Asian immigration was brought to a halt early on. No Japanese or Filipinos work the fields anymore, they worked hard and today own many farms (inspite of the racist relocation programs the whites imposed on the Japanese during the war. In our area the white farmers farmed the Japanese land, paid the taxes and banked the money, when the Japanese farmers came home they had their land back and money in the bank)

During the depression whites worked the fields again, largely what we in the West called okies, they were badly abused by many growers, not all. They too climbed out of the fields and never went back. Today many of the farms particularly in California's Central Valley are owned by the children and grand children of "okies".

The Bracero program was instituted in about 1942 because of labor shortages caused by military callups. It was a successful guest worker program, it ended in 1964 although the need for labor did not. Illegals entered the country (often former guest workers returning to the same fields) to fill the need for labor, that has not stopped.

Commercial fruit and vegetable farming is a far cry from family run farms. I worked in the fields from the time I could get a work permit at 12 years old until I left for the military at 17, primarily to get out of the fields. As a fit athletic kid, I could not hold a candle in piece work to the Mexican kids. Truth there. I know whereof I speak, if you would like to think I am arrogant for speaking the truth,,, Whateverrrr!!!

Last edited by greatbasinguide; 11-08-2007 at 03:55 PM..
 
Old 11-08-2007, 03:52 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,157,153 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Since illegal aliens are unlikely to be committing white-collar crimes, that figure likely underestimates the amount of violent crime committed by illegal aliens. Using the GAO report, Representative Steve King of Iowa points out that 25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day (about evenly split between motor vehicle accidents and outright murder).

That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years!
Don't be so sure:
YouTube - Immigration: The Human Cost - Onion News Network
 
Old 11-08-2007, 03:54 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,779,846 times
Reputation: 6264
Apparently basing you have some bias against republicans
 
Old 11-08-2007, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,755 posts, read 23,217,198 times
Reputation: 6087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years!

I know that you illegal alien apologists just don't want to believe that your precious illegal identity thieves are capable of violent crime, but statistic after statistic shows just the opposite. There is an abundance of information available of the web and elsewhere if you care to research the topic. But then again, those who rely on dogmatic rhetoric rarely accept or consider documented evidence as they hold tenaciously to their beloved tenets.
Don't know how well supported this assumption is, the attached article seems to indicate that illegals aren't exactly going around and slaughtering folks:

News: Study: Immigrant crime rate low - OCRegister.com
 
Old 11-08-2007, 03:58 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,706,920 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Apparently basing you have some bias against republicans
Oh no, some of my best friends are Republicans
I see a problem when people think that illegals are here because of political correctness or namby pamby liberal politicians.
Illegals are here because businesses want them, Republicans claim to be pro business, therefore, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, they are pro illegal
 
Old 11-08-2007, 03:59 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,157,153 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Don't know how well supported this assumption is, the attached article seems to indicate that illegals aren't exactly going around and slaughtering folks:

News: Study: Immigrant crime rate low - OCRegister.com
Nice find.

Quote:
"Even as the undocumented population has doubled to 12 million since 1994, the violent crime rate in the United States has declined 34.2 percent and the property crime rate has fallen 26.4 percent," according to the report.
 
Old 11-08-2007, 04:06 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,706,920 times
Reputation: 350
good info, I thought someone would comment on my ever so clever use of the word 'lettuce' as in "lettuce pray"
 
Old 11-08-2007, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Kingman AZ
15,371 posts, read 33,759,682 times
Reputation: 8976
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
good info, I thought someone would comment on my ever so clever use of the word 'lettuce' as in "lettuce pray"
WOW....I always thought it was lettuce spray
 
Old 11-08-2007, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,156 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Commercial fruit and vegetable farming is a far cry from family run farms. I worked in the fields from the time I could get a work permit at 12 years old until I left for the military at 17, primarily to get out of the fields. As a fit athletic kid, I could not hold a candle in piece work to the Mexican kids. Truth there. I know whereof I speak, if you would like to think I am arrogant for speaking the truth,,, Whateverrrr!!!
Yeah, my back breaking days working sun up to sun down is not comparable to what it takes to pick lettuce. We had high school kids in MN de-tassling corn for $8 an hour. We put up a flyer at the high school, and had to turn some away because too many showed up. If you want to say Americans physically cannot do the same work as a Mexican, I say that is a racist and ignorant statement.
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