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Old 11-12-2007, 08:30 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
its called civil disobedience. peaceful protest.

definition - refusal to obey governmental demands or commands especially as a nonviolent and usually collective means of forcing concessions from the government

meaning if you, as a store owner, accept expired IDs because they do indeed show proof of age, you are civilly disobeying government law because you feel that you have a justifiable argument against it.



A store owner accepting expired ID wants to make a sale. That is NOT civil disobedience and you slander the memory of REAL examples of civil disobedience by even trying to make the civil disobedience argument here!
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:31 PM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Wow. Unbelievable.
what would you do if you were starving and had no money and there was no social programs to help feed you?

getting a job is certainly an option... but if it isnt, what do you do?
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
what would you do if you were starving and had no money and there was no social programs to help feed you?

getting a job is certainly an option... but if it isnt, what do you do?
When would getting a job not be an option? I guess I would consider becoming a criminal that way I would have YOU there to make every excuse in the world for me breaking the law.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:03 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post


A store owner accepting expired ID wants to make a sale. That is NOT civil disobedience and you slander the memory of REAL examples of civil disobedience by even trying to make the civil disobedience argument here!

yup.i sell alcohol, understand the law, yet question it in cases, yet what i would call civil disobeidience would be me standing on 4th and lomas where our courts are, with a blood red painted sign saying "crcr961553....wheres the justice?!?!? an illegal alien almost killed my husband but was never deported...."
i think rosa parks might find the humor here.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:05 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
what would you do if you were starving and had no money and there was no social programs to help feed you?

getting a job is certainly an option... but if it isnt, what do you do?
i would move to the city....
but within my own nation.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:13 PM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
When would getting a job not be an option? I guess I would consider becoming a criminal that way I would have YOU there to make every excuse in the world for me breaking the law.
i dont defend every criminal. just the ones whose crimes are unjust, in my own opinion.

getting a job usually is an option. the only time i could think its not is due to extreme physical or mental disabilities. or maybe an abundance of children. but those people do exist.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:04 AM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
i dont defend every criminal. just the ones whose crimes are unjust, in my own opinion.

getting a job usually is an option. the only time i could think its not is due to extreme physical or mental disabilities. or maybe an abundance of children. but those people do exist.
mabe an abundance of children??all th emore reason to find a job........imho
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:37 AM
 
86 posts, read 130,434 times
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I honestly can't believe that you would support crime in any way shape or form, regardless of whether or not they "need the money for food". Finding a job is not that hard, even a job at a fast food restaurant, who are ALWAYS hiring is enough to live off of, if they are good with their money. And no-experience necessary jobs that are always hiring (call-centers, for example), start people out at $10-$13 an hour (Source: Call centers' wages on the rise | www.azstarnet.com ¬ģ (http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/star200/171610.php - broken link), which is for a more specific set of call centers, but T-Mobile starts their employees at no less than $10.50/hr, Verizon starts their employees at no less than $11.00/hr, and out-sourcing call centers have starting wages ranging from $7.50 to $10.00/hr, those numbers are based on the fact that I worked for T-Mobile [which I started at $12.50 with no call center experience and do not speak other languages] and an Outsourcing Call center [Which I started at $9.50 and after 90 days was given a $.25 raise to $9.75/hr], and have many friends who work for Verizon, including my Sister [who makes $14.50/hr, and a friend of mine made the same]), which is plenty to live off of, and they usually have pay increases for being multi-lingual, which is easy for them, since most illegal immigrants are from countries that do not speak English. Finding a job as a multi-lingual person is easy in this country, so there is no reason these people should be stealing from us or getting food stamps. They need to get a job.

Illegal immigrants over the past 6 years are responsible for more than 22,000 deaths of US citizens (based on numbers in 2006, if the numbers stay the same, the amount now would be almost 27,000, and that is *just* murders). And that is ONLY murders, not deaths caused by illegal immigrants in automobile accidents. The death toll of US soldiers in Iraq for that same period is a little under 3,900. 2 soldiers a day die in Iraq and Afghanistan, whereas 12 people a day die due to illegal immigrant murderers. More people die from illegal immigration than soldiers in a COMBAT ZONE described as violent and extremely hostile by the same pro-illegal immigration yahoos. Yet you call these immigrants safe, and only wanting to peacefully come over and find work and better their lives. Sources: The Associated Press: US Military Deaths in Iraq at 3,861 (broken link) More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says (OneNewsNow.com) (broken link) WorldNetDaily: Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily
and, most importantly Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Terrorism which clearly states that 3 of the 4 terrorist pilots involved in 9/11 attacks were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Your arguments are now no longer valid. Ask for proof and sources, you have them.

Also, if you read some of the links on The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration: Facts, Figures and Data Show A Disturbing Truth , you will see that Al-Qaeda operatives have been apprehended at the Southern border, which proves terrorists are crossing our borders illegally. There is also a staggering number of illegal immigrants (greater than 45,000) which come from countries that sponsor or harbor terrorists/terrorism.

Last edited by RickM; 11-13-2007 at 12:56 AM..
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:09 AM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,687,512 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
definition - refusal to obey governmental demands or commands especially as a nonviolent and usually collective means of forcing concessions from the government

meaning if you, as a store owner, accept expired IDs because they do indeed show proof of age, you are civilly disobeying government law because you feel that you have a justifiable argument against it.
What you are failing to get if it is expired it could be a fake ID.
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,755 posts, read 23,217,198 times
Reputation: 6092
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickM View Post
Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Terrorism[/url] which clearly states that 3 of the 4 terrorist pilots involved in 9/11 attacks were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Your arguments are now no longer valid. Ask for proof and sources, you have them.

Also, if you read some of the links on The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration: Facts, Figures and Data Show A Disturbing Truth , you will see that Al-Qaeda operatives have been apprehended at the Southern border, which proves terrorists are crossing our borders illegally. There is also a staggering number of illegal immigrants (greater than 45,000) which come from countries that sponsor or harbor terrorists/terrorism.
I was with your sentiments until you brought up the Al-Qaeda issue, and the link to terrorism and the Mexican border.

I think the greater threat for this is actually the Canadian border. Canada has a very significant vulnerability to terrorist operatives, and they are aware of it:


Terrorism (http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/en/priorities/terrorism.asp - broken link)

That border is massive, and very difficult to patrol.
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