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Old 08-03-2013, 02:26 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
They're crazy. USCIS is what, 99% funded by fees? If they want immigration benefits, they're gonna pay for them. That's never, ever going to change. And if they don't know English or care to educate themselves, then they'll likely have to hire an immigration attorney even for simple and/or routine applications which will usually cost thousands more. Or they can pay a notario to screw up their case and then they'll have to hire an attorney anyway when they get placed in removal proceedings. Although I'm sure they want the private bar to provide their services pro bono too

Say what you want, but one thing about illegal immigration is that most illegal immigrants do have to pay considerable amounts of money sooner or later, not only to the US government but also to attorneys if they want legal status here... which in some indirect way does feed into the economy. And in my opinion, this is a good thing. It doesn't make up for them entering illegally, but it's better than nothing IMO.
When you factor in the jobs they are holding that should be for Americans and their social costs, no they don't even begin to feed the economy is a positive way even if legalized.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
When you factor in the jobs they are holding that should be for Americans and their social costs, no they don't even begin to feed the economy is a positive way even if legalized.
You are spot on. They are leeches on our economic system.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:45 PM
 
Location: First Hill, Seattle
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
When you factor in the jobs they are holding that should be for Americans and their social costs, no they don't even begin to feed the economy is a positive way even if legalized.
What you're saying is correct, but that's not relevant to my point at all.
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:54 PM
 
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We better contact our congressman whatever our position is.

The USA Chamber of Commerce, the restaurant owners, the home building industry and the produce houses all want undocumented workers. The Republican grassroots can rail all day long. Their elected Republican representatives will go along with the folks who think we can support the whole world and the Catholic Church. The coalition of the bleeding hearts and American businessmen are gonna win this one.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by crone View Post
We better contact our congressman whatever our position is.

The USA Chamber of Commerce, the restaurant owners, the home building industry and the produce houses all want undocumented workers. The Republican grassroots can rail all day long. Their elected Republican representatives will go along with the folks who think we can support the whole world and the Catholic Church. The coalition of the bleeding hearts and American businessmen are gonna win this one.
I don't think so. Us regular folks will fight this "illegal alien" amnesty tooth and nail.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
What you're saying is correct, but that's not relevant to my point at all.
IMO, it is very relevant. You are saying they will boost our economy and I disagreed with you and explained why.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Seems it is you with the problem trying to claim that there aren't any American born doctors or American roofers when you were proven wrong.
Over a quarter (27%) of doctors in the United States are foreign-born (Migration Information Source - Foreign-Born Health Care Workers in the United States). I've heard that about a third of "nurses" (which are also probably other healthcare workers too, since I couldn't find that information among the statistics) are foreign-born. Don't really know about the roofers.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:57 PM
 
Location: First Hill, Seattle
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
IMO, it is very relevant. You are saying they will boost our economy and I disagreed with you and explained why.
I said that they contribute to the economy indirectly. Their application fees go to USCIS which goes in part to funding USCIS employees' taxed paychecks. They also pay attorneys lots of money. I never said they "boost" the economy. I said "it's better than nothing" that they have to pay a lot to get immigration benefits. And honestly, the jobs aspect really doesn't concern me as much as the public benefits. Most illegal aliens do not get public benefits. But the anchor children, who are US citizens, do. And who benefits indirectly from that? That's the bigger issue to me.

And yes, they do pay, as a general rule, more money to immigrate than those who do legally, at least in the family-based system. Example: if you cross illegally and are married to a US citizen, you have to pay anywhere from $585-675 in filing fees for a waiver, and will almost always need an attorney who will charge anywhere from $2500 to $3500. Someone who married a US citizen and waited patiently to immigrate in their home country would not pay these fees. Someone who files a 245i adjustment pays a $1000 penalty in addition to the $985 filing fee, just because they entered illegally. Plus attorney fees.

Should they be here at all? No. But here they are, and amnesty is imminent. I was addressing the point that some of them don't think they should learn English or pay fees with the amnesty program. The point I made was that yes, they should and will have to pay fees, and not learning English will be a disservice to themselves if nothing else. Sorry if that view isn't extreme enough for you but it's called realism.

Last edited by Bluefox; 08-03-2013 at 08:05 PM..
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:44 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
I said that they contribute to the economy indirectly. Their application fees go to USCIS which goes in part to funding USCIS employees' taxed paychecks. They also pay attorneys lots of money. I never said they "boost" the economy. I said "it's better than nothing" that they have to pay a lot to get immigration benefits. And honestly, the jobs aspect really doesn't concern me as much as the public benefits. Most illegal aliens do not get public benefits. But the anchor children, who are US citizens, do. And who benefits indirectly from that? That's the bigger issue to me.

And yes, they do pay, as a general rule, more money to immigrate than those who do legally, at least in the family-based system. Example: if you cross illegally and are married to a US citizen, you have to pay anywhere from $585-675 in filing fees for a waiver, and will almost always need an attorney who will charge anywhere from $2500 to $3500. Someone who married a US citizen and waited patiently to immigrate in their home country would not pay these fees. Someone who files a 245i adjustment pays a $1000 penalty in addition to the $985 filing fee, just because they entered illegally. Plus attorney fees.

Should they be here at all? No. But here they are, and amnesty is imminent. I was addressing the point that some of them don't think they should learn English or pay fees with the amnesty program. The point I made was that yes, they should and will have to pay fees, and not learning English will be a disservice to themselves if nothing else. Sorry if that view isn't extreme enough for you but it's called realism.
So some petulant fees (especially any paid to an immigration lawyer) are enough to cover their social costs while being here illegally? So some fees that will allow them to stay here and retain American jobs or compete for them is a plus to our economy?

Sorry but amnesty is not imminent and in fact I think it is dead in the water and rightly so. Just because they are here doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage them to leave by removing the job incentives, benefits and birthright citizenship for their kids. There is nothing extreme about that nor any other ways of enforcing our immigration laws. They deserve nothing just because "they are here".
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:02 AM
 
17,022 posts, read 9,066,807 times
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They have no right to demand anything.
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