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Old 08-06-2013, 10:48 AM
 
113 posts, read 254,703 times
Reputation: 116

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I'm glad this thread was started because I have a few things to say. I am not much of an active poster to begin with, but when I first discovered this forum a couple of years ago, I did not care for how heated it can become. It seems like one must preface every post with a disclaimer that they are against illegal immigration, or they will be labeled a pro-illegal if they simply try to explain why illegal immigration exists. I do not name names, but I will say that at least one of these members is not active anymore.

The truth is, I am a very centered person and wish illegal immigration did not exist, but living in NY, I can see why it happens. Our welfare system is extremely generous with US citizens and legal immigrants who just don't feel like working. Illegals are entitled to NOTHING in this state. If the minimum wage was doubled tomorrow, there still would be people who don't feel like working. My idea to solve both the problem of illegal immigration and welfare abuse would be to place each able-bodied person collecting welfare into a job held by an illegal. If I lost my job tomorrow and had to rely on food stamps and Medicaid, I would be so grateful for the help that I wouldn't mind working 10-20 hours a week as a dishwasher for the assistance while I looked for a better job with my extra time. But my idea is just a pipe dream and will probably never happen.

And here is an anecdotal story:
I'll never forget the time my brother was working in construction well before the recession started. He had a job in the projects and was working on the scaffold with his partner when the wonderful residents of the buildings started cursing at them and throwing items at them, including dirty diapers, for waking them up. This was well past 9-10AM. They should have been grateful that someone was fixing their FREE building for them, but no. As I said, this was well before the recession and there was no excuse for an able-bodied person to not be working somewhere. Does anyone really think these people are just itching to get back to work, but can't because an illegal is taking their job? This is where a big part of the problem lies, yet someone may accuse me of being a pro-illegal for pointing that out.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Random you make a valid point. The fact is the jobs the illegals take would not be jobs those you described would be interested in. The jobs like roofing, drywall, landscaping etc are difficult back breaking jobs. Not for the lazy segment of our population. The illegals have in fact displaced many citizens from their chosen trades. One can not compete with illegals when you need to pay taxes on what you earn. Drywallers and such subcontractors. They pay the full SS not the half most of us pay. They also pay workmans comp insurance full price. They also will be held accountable for defects in their work. Illegals simply move on. A legal can and will be sued if they try that.
Jobs that were once done as entry level jobs for our children are now done by illegals. Once again illegals have displaced citizens.
This is no victimless crime.
Add to the job theft.
ID Theft, ID fraud, Tax fraud and evasion. The cost is in the billions.
Then you have theft of medical services. Illegals love the ER, they can't be turned down and of course using a false name they escape paying the bill. Cost is in the billions.
Public schools for their children require us to provide interpreters and tutors. Cost is in the billions.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,353 posts, read 5,711,855 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomPersonInNY View Post
I'm glad this thread was started because I have a few things to say. I am not much of an active poster to begin with, but when I first discovered this forum a couple of years ago, I did not care for how heated it can become. It seems like one must preface every post with a disclaimer that they are against illegal immigration, or they will be labeled a pro-illegal if they simply try to explain why illegal immigration exists. I do not name names, but I will say that at least one of these members is not active anymore.

The truth is, I am a very centered person and wish illegal immigration did not exist, but living in NY, I can see why it happens. Our welfare system is extremely generous with US citizens and legal immigrants who just don't feel like working. Illegals are entitled to NOTHING in this state. If the minimum wage was doubled tomorrow, there still would be people who don't feel like working. My idea to solve both the problem of illegal immigration and welfare abuse would be to place each able-bodied person collecting welfare into a job held by an illegal. If I lost my job tomorrow and had to rely on food stamps and Medicaid, I would be so grateful for the help that I wouldn't mind working 10-20 hours a week as a dishwasher for the assistance while I looked for a better job with my extra time. But my idea is just a pipe dream and will probably never happen.

And here is an anecdotal story:
I'll never forget the time my brother was working in construction well before the recession started. He had a job in the projects and was working on the scaffold with his partner when the wonderful residents of the buildings started cursing at them and throwing items at them, including dirty diapers, for waking them up. This was well past 9-10AM. They should have been grateful that someone was fixing their FREE building for them, but no. As I said, this was well before the recession and there was no excuse for an able-bodied person to not be working somewhere. Does anyone really think these people are just itching to get back to work, but can't because an illegal is taking their job? This is where a big part of the problem lies, yet someone may accuse me of being a pro-illegal for pointing that out.
I would suppose that is why when CBP agents find illegals in the desert, they're offered water and food and taken to air conditioned processing centers. They're even given sandals or shoes if needed, and clothing if needed too. Why, I'll bet if they're detained long enough at processing centers, they're given the opportunity to shower/bathe and given a clean place to stay and a bed to sleep on.

Yep, we Americans are just oh so cruel and unusual, and often forget how to be humanitarians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Random you make a valid point. The fact is the jobs the illegals take would not be jobs those you described would be interested in. The jobs like roofing, drywall, landscaping etc are difficult back breaking jobs. Not for the lazy segment of our population. The illegals have in fact displaced many citizens from their chosen trades. One can not compete with illegals when you need to pay taxes on what you earn. Drywallers and such subcontractors. They pay the full SS not the half most of us pay. They also pay workmans comp insurance full price. They also will be held accountable for defects in their work. Illegals simply move on. A legal can and will be sued if they try that.
Jobs that were once done as entry level jobs for our children are now done by illegals. Once again illegals have displaced citizens.
This is no victimless crime.
Add to the job theft.
ID Theft, ID fraud, Tax fraud and evasion. The cost is in the billions.
Then you have theft of medical services. Illegals love the ER, they can't be turned down and of course using a false name they escape paying the bill. Cost is in the billions.
Public schools for their children require us to provide interpreters and tutors. Cost is in the billions.
Link or proof of please.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:23 AM
 
113 posts, read 254,703 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
I would suppose that is why when CBP agents find illegals in the desert, they're offered water and food and taken to air conditioned processing centers. They're even given sandals or shoes if needed, and clothing if needed too. Why, I'll bet if they're detained long enough at processing centers, they're given the opportunity to shower/bathe and given a clean place to stay and a bed to sleep on.

Yep, we Americans are just oh so cruel and unusual, and often forget how to be humanitarians.



Link or proof of please.
And this is exactly what I mean about the selective reading and knee-jerk responses in this forum. I was not talking about when they are found in the desert, but about the NYS welfare system. I already made that clear in my original post. Illegal aliens are not entitled to any form of welfare in NY. Only if they have an anchor baby, which many do not. Does that clarify things for you?
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,353 posts, read 5,711,855 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomPersonInNY View Post
And this is exactly what I mean about the selective reading and knee-jerk responses in this forum. I was not talking about when they are found in the desert, but about the NYS welfare system. I already made that clear in my original post. Illegal aliens are not entitled to any form of welfare in NY. Only if they have an anchor baby, which many do not. Does that clarify things for you?
So, that would mean if an illegal shows up at any hospital in the USA, he/she should be turned away.
If an illegal in the USA needs food, shelter or basically any other type of humanitarian aid, America should just tell them to go scratch it, get back to your own country where you came from, nobody invited you here.

How's that for "knee jerk"?
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,551,884 times
Reputation: 2360
The illegals that come to this country did not have a government that was ready to support them. They aren't given a choice of living off the government or working, unlike the US that gives that choice to those that are able bodied and capable of working.

In any neighborhood in any city you can find illegals standing on a corner or in a shopping center - in the heat, cold, rain, snow, looking for day work. Eventually they pool their money and find a way to open a fruit and vegetable market or a small deli. If the government stopped giving the able bodied a choice between relying on government or going to work, and took the benefits away the only means for survival would be going to work. These government parasites don't care about illegals, but they would care if they had to compete with illegals to survive. Is taking away welfare benefits and telling them they need to work if they want to survive trampling on their civil rights?
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,551,884 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
I would suppose that is why when CBP agents find illegals in the desert, they're offered water and food and taken to air conditioned processing centers. They're even given sandals or shoes if needed, and clothing if needed too. Why, I'll bet if they're detained long enough at processing centers, they're given the opportunity to shower/bathe and given a clean place to stay and a bed to sleep on.

Yep, we Americans are just oh so cruel and unusual, and often forget how to be humanitarians.



Link or proof of please.
Quote:
The United States currently has an estimated 11 million immigrants who entered this country illegally. According to the National Research Council, the migration of these individuals into the United States costs American taxpayers $346 billion annually
Illegal Immigrants Add to US Healthcare Costs

It seems that the figure of 11 million has been used for the past 10 years. The number of illegals has to be considerably higher, but it wouldn't change the healthcare cost to taxpayers. Reagan thought he was giving amnesty to several hundred thousands, which turned out to be 3 million.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:51 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,353 posts, read 5,711,855 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Illegal Immigrants Add to US Healthcare Costs

It seems that the figure of 11 million has been used for the past 10 years. The number of illegals has to be considerably higher, but it wouldn't change the healthcare cost to taxpayers. Reagan thought he was giving amnesty to several hundred thousands, which turned out to be 3 million.
I'll admit illegal immigration is a problem, but it seems that local government agencies hands are tied when it comes to reporting an illegal.

The question still is, how do they handle a delicate situation without unlawfully detaining people until they receive a deportation hearing? And, if it involves a family, should the entire family be deported including the one/s which were born in the USA too? Very touchy. Sometimes considered unfair to deport one and not the other. It's a rock and a hard place, IMO. How to be fair, ethical and humanitarian all in one.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:03 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8363
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomPersonInNY View Post
I'm glad this thread was started because I have a few things to say. I am not much of an active poster to begin with, but when I first discovered this forum a couple of years ago, I did not care for how heated it can become. It seems like one must preface every post with a disclaimer that they are against illegal immigration, or they will be labeled a pro-illegal if they simply try to explain why illegal immigration exists. I do not name names, but I will say that at least one of these members is not active anymore.

The truth is, I am a very centered person and wish illegal immigration did not exist, but living in NY, I can see why it happens. Our welfare system is extremely generous with US citizens and legal immigrants who just don't feel like working. Illegals are entitled to NOTHING in this state. If the minimum wage was doubled tomorrow, there still would be people who don't feel like working. My idea to solve both the problem of illegal immigration and welfare abuse would be to place each able-bodied person collecting welfare into a job held by an illegal. If I lost my job tomorrow and had to rely on food stamps and Medicaid, I would be so grateful for the help that I wouldn't mind working 10-20 hours a week as a dishwasher for the assistance while I looked for a better job with my extra time. But my idea is just a pipe dream and will probably never happen.

And here is an anecdotal story:
I'll never forget the time my brother was working in construction well before the recession started. He had a job in the projects and was working on the scaffold with his partner when the wonderful residents of the buildings started cursing at them and throwing items at them, including dirty diapers, for waking them up. This was well past 9-10AM. They should have been grateful that someone was fixing their FREE building for them, but no. As I said, this was well before the recession and there was no excuse for an able-bodied person to not be working somewhere. Does anyone really think these people are just itching to get back to work, but can't because an illegal is taking their job? This is where a big part of the problem lies, yet someone may accuse me of being a pro-illegal for pointing that out.
You are talking about a minority of Americans that are too lazy to work though. That simply isn't true of the majority. Illegal aliens are being hired simply because they work cheaper not because Americans can't be found for the job or because they are too lazy to work. I agree however, that every able-bodied American should be working and not collecting welfare. In today's economy it is hard for a blue-collared American to find a job that will feed their family though. Sometimes unemployment pays more. Illegals have already taken many of those blue-collared jobs and for the reason I already cited. Americans have had their wages reduced due to illegal immigration also. Those are just the facts and no I am not calling you pro-illegal. However, there is no justification for them to break the law nor for the employers to break the law by hiring them with idiotic, false claims they can't find an Americans to do the job for a "fair" wage.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:08 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8363
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Random you make a valid point. The fact is the jobs the illegals take would not be jobs those you described would be interested in. The jobs like roofing, drywall, landscaping etc are difficult back breaking jobs. Not for the lazy segment of our population. The illegals have in fact displaced many citizens from their chosen trades. One can not compete with illegals when you need to pay taxes on what you earn. Drywallers and such subcontractors. They pay the full SS not the half most of us pay. They also pay workmans comp insurance full price. They also will be held accountable for defects in their work. Illegals simply move on. A legal can and will be sued if they try that.
Jobs that were once done as entry level jobs for our children are now done by illegals. Once again illegals have displaced citizens.
This is no victimless crime.
Add to the job theft.
ID Theft, ID fraud, Tax fraud and evasion. The cost is in the billions.
Then you have theft of medical services. Illegals love the ER, they can't be turned down and of course using a false name they escape paying the bill. Cost is in the billions.
Public schools for their children require us to provide interpreters and tutors. Cost is in the billions.
There are however many non-lazy Americans who have always done roofing, drywall, landscaping, etc. until the arrival of cheap, illegal labor that drove them off those jobs. You're right they have been displaced or their wages reduced due to illegal immigration.

You're right again. Those entry level jobs that our American youth used to be able to get are getting scarcer now also due to illegal immigration. Everything else you have said is spot on also, tinman.
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