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Old 08-05-2013, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Thinker View Post
If people could really speak Their own minds, assuming they have a rational thought of their own, actual conversations could take place. But sadly, people are too busy to keep up, and chose their own "sources" due to whatever reasons.

Yes, Tinman, You are a real pleasure on any forum. Consider that a compliment of the highest order. I hate political partisanship, racial priorities, and detest those that cannot admit a mistake. I like to get to the end of an argument or debate, and prefer it to be do to facts or general consensus.

But in the end, as we age, it gets harder and harder to care.
Thank you Sun, You know my respect for you also. Yes as I get older I feel less and less care and more disgust at what our nation is turning into. We have such great potential and it is being wasted and squandered.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:05 AM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8346
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Americans who have family ties, as in being married to someone who was illegal and now going through the process of become legal (you know and I know who you are referring to on this forum) are not supporting amnesty FOR EVERY ILLEGAL in the country.

The blood rushed to your so fast that you couldn't see that I agreed with you on English.

I used "Muslims" AND black people as an example of the prejudices that some people have, along with illegal immigrant hatred. If you think it was inappropriate to mention Muslims AS AN EXAMPLE of other hatreds that people have in an illegal immigration thread, then stop mention illegals in P&OC threads. If I was off base, I'm sure Yac (who apparently read the posts in the thread) would have deleted or edited my post - which he didn't. You don't get to decide what people can and can't say.

I still want to know EXACTLY what you and those that are consumed with the amnesty of illegals doing to STOP IT other than regurgitating the same thing over and over?

I guess you don't realize that government has control of the amnesty and government doesn't care what you or any other peon that serves them thinks. Maybe you should organize and demand Washington not grant amnesty, the same way illegals organized and demanded amnesty.
Um, no sorry I do not know about a member of this forum whose spouse came here illegally and that is trying to legalize. I never even referred to anyone in this forum in regards to that. IMO, supporting amnesty for any illegal is not in the best interests of our country. It makes a mockery out of our immigration laws and is a slap in the face to those who never came here legally.

How is objecting to illegal immigration based on hatred? Is objecting to other lawbreakers hate also? There may be "some" anti-illegals who just don't like Mexicans/Hispanics but they are among the minority of us anti-illegals. Yet the pro-illegals (and apparently you to now) use that as a basis to stereotype the entire anti-illegal immigration movement.

I only mention illegal immigration in the Politics forum if the subject comes up or it is related in some way to illegal immigration. Why does that bother you? Let the mods over there handle it then. I never start a topic over there on illegal immigration and when someone else does it gets moved over here as it should.

The topic of Muslims has nothing to do with illegal immigration nor just because some may object to them being here does it negate their objection to illegal immigration. Prejudice against certain people here legally is totally unrelated to objecting to those here illegally. The former may be considered prejudiced but not the latter.

We anti-illegals are contacting our congressmen and forming groups to stop this shamnesty in its tracks. If you truly object to illegal immigration then you would do the same thing instead of focusing on the few anti-illegals who may just hate a certain ethnic group. That is exactly what the pro-illegals do because they have no viable justification for their stance on this issue. Therefore they pull the blanket race card at anyone who dares to disagree with them.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,549,980 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
To be fair that is not the average poster that would do that. What I do see is the gang up on approach. Someone posts and others join ranks to attack the posts. Sometimes it is deserved given the likelihood of it being a troll post. An example would be: Americans are too lazy that is why we need illegals. Blah blah blah.
I have seen posters attacked because their wife is hispanic and the poster was trying to make a point that not all hispanics are illegals.
I myself was attacked. Well my wife was anyway and she isn't hispanic or a poster on this forum. That is how rabid it can be on here. My point is we should all be able to post without making it personal. We can make our points without attacking people on a personal level. Just because others do it doesn't make it right or add credibility to our own posts.
He got a "threat" from a "group" that has outed him and he knew what was meant by that "threat". They will continue to expose him.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
He got a "threat" from a "group" that has outed him and he knew what was meant by that "threat". They will continue to expose him.
ahhhhhhhh I see.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:20 AM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8346
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
To be fair that is not the average poster that would do that. What I do see is the gang up on approach. Someone posts and others join ranks to attack the posts. Sometimes it is deserved given the likelihood of it being a troll post. An example would be: Americans are too lazy that is why we need illegals. Blah blah blah.
I have seen posters attacked because their wife is hispanic and the poster was trying to make a point that not all hispanics are illegals.
I myself was attacked. Well my wife was anyway and she isn't hispanic or a poster on this forum. That is how rabid it can be on here. My point is we should all be able to post without making it personal. We can make our points without attacking people on a personal level. Just because others do it doesn't make it right or add credibility to our own posts.
Yes, that is true but only about the threats of coming after me. Most pro-illegals won't resort to that. The rest are all the typical pro-illegal tactics of labeling us as racists, xenophobes, Hispanic haters, etc. You know that is true, tinman. That is getting personal and I feel we should have the right to defend ourselves from their initial personal attacks. Even my stance on diversity in our immigration numbers is considered racist by some in here. Since when is desiring equality racist?

I don't recall anyone saying that all Hispanics are illegals. Anyone with half a brain would know that with 50 million Hispanics in this country and only supposedly 11-12 million illegals here that wouldn't be possible. It is possible that some or many are products of illegal immigration. In otherwords they were born from illegal parents and became instant citizens. I do not however know the mathematical numbers of that and of course that does not make them illegals.

I take it personal when a member in here says that whites were the first illegals and that we somehow should allow Mexicans to come here at will just because of some so-called stolen land argument from the past. I won't mention the name of the person who said that in here but you know them well. I was even accused of being Hispanic by a couple of the pro-illegals in here. Nothing could be further from the truth. The same person who complained they were being stalked at home (not by any member of this forum) stalked me by IP address. Talk about hypocricy!

IMO, there are far more personal attacks by the pro-illegals in this forum than those of us who are anti-illegal. Neither one should do that but in my case I will only do that if I am attacked first. If I don't and report them to the mods instead I get called a "whiner" then.

It is interesting to note that quoting facts are considered racist by the other side also. I am glad you started this topic. It is a good way for the truth to be exposed and to vent our frustrations in the open forum. I hope Yac continues to allow it to remain just as long it is kept truthful and civil.

Last edited by Oldglory; 08-05-2013 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:42 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,135,299 times
Reputation: 26651
If I thought people could keep it civil, I'd suggest 2 threads: pro-amnesty people in one, anti-amnesty/illegal immigration in the other...and we just post why we took the position that we did. Might be interesting.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:52 AM
 
1,458 posts, read 1,150,986 times
Reputation: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Thank you Sun, You know my respect for you also. Yes as I get older I feel less and less care and more disgust at what our nation is turning into. We have such great potential and it is being wasted and squandered.
Too bad that there aren't more like you. All some of us can do nowadays is cynically smile and shake our head. If things turn out badly, those that said they wouldn't, won't even acknowledge it.

Illegal Immigration. Every time I see that term, I wonder if everyone sees both words at once. Ever since Ronald Reagan, every President since has offered up much the same type of solutions and compromises. They saw both sides, and knew how tough a problem it was.

It's my opinion that neither "side" really wants a solution, they want things to stay as they are.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:55 AM
 
1,458 posts, read 1,150,986 times
Reputation: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
If I thought people could keep it civil, I'd suggest 2 threads: pro-amnesty people in one, anti-amnesty/illegal immigration in the other...and we just post why we took the position that we did. Might be interesting.
That's a good idea....except......

If each "SIDE" critiqued their own pros and cons, maybe they could come up with a viable discussion. Each pro and con has a downside, the need to prioritize those lists has always been an issue. In Congress, each side has a majority that doesn't want to admit to any negatives on their lists. Those that compromise, are slaughtered.

Be an interesting study case though

Will there be peanuts?
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
If I thought people could keep it civil, I'd suggest 2 threads: pro-amnesty people in one, anti-amnesty/illegal immigration in the other...and we just post why we took the position that we did. Might be interesting.
One of the initial topics I created soon after arriving here was to ask why members felt they were in the debate about illegal immigration. I knew some responses weren't honest, and there were many that were canned (what I have learned to be the framing that most of the topics here degenerate to). It might be interesting to ask the question again, I agree with you.

I've learned the ability to keep quiet and let others do the talking on occasion, and it looks to have had its benefits...
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:28 AM
 
31,458 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8346
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
He got a "threat" from a "group" that has outed him and he knew what was meant by that "threat". They will continue to expose him.
Outed me from where? Exposed me for what? Are you going to resort to personal attacks on me also now?
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