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So, that would mean if an illegal shows up at any hospital in the USA, he/she should be turned away.
If an illegal in the USA needs food, shelter or basically any other type of humanitarian aid, America should just tell them to go scratch it, get back to your own country where you came from, nobody invited you here.
How's that for "knee jerk"?
Once again, and I'll say this very slooowly for you. I was talking about W E L F A R E. Not the ER, but W E L F A R E. I never said that anyone is being turned down for humanitarian aid, but if they try to go to the welfare office without a valid social security number, they are getting nothing. I also never said that anyone should go scratch it and go back to their country. I don't believe in letting people die and starve to death, especially children. Where are you getting this from?
Thank you for reminding me why I do not participate in this forum. Maybe I'll come back in another two years.
Once again, and I'll say this very slooowly for you. I was talking about W E L F A R E. Not the ER, but W E L F A R E. I never said that anyone is being turned down for humanitarian aid, but if they try to go to the welfare office without a valid social security number, they are getting nothing. I also never said that anyone should go scratch it and go back to their country. I don't believe in letting people die and starve to death, especially children. Where are you getting this from?
Thank you for reminding me why I do not participate in this forum. Maybe I'll come back in another two years.
Oooookaaaayyyyyy.
Well, that's why I rarely visit the immigration forum, people get ticked off, which I was after reading some posts about how much illegals cost America, and I just had to throw my opinions and feelings out there about them. Now you're ticked off too. See? This forum basically turns into vitriol after a few opinions, and nothing is ever resolved. Makes you wonder how our government can tackle the illegal immigration problems we face as a nation without them getting into fisticuffs with each other. Sure glad I'm not a representative congressperson, because I wouldn't know where or how to begin with caring for people who have come here looking for a better life and then becoming sick or injured.
I would suppose that is why when CBP agents find illegals in the desert, they're offered water and food and taken to air conditioned processing centers. They're even given sandals or shoes if needed, and clothing if needed too. Why, I'll bet if they're detained long enough at processing centers, they're given the opportunity to shower/bathe and given a clean place to stay and a bed to sleep on.
Yep, we Americans are just oh so cruel and unusual, and often forget how to be humanitarians.
I dont advocate refusing illegals medical care. I am simply pointing out that they cost we the people a great deal of money and there are many victims of illegal immigration. I gave 2 links however there are many.
I'll admit illegal immigration is a problem, but it seems that local government agencies hands are tied when it comes to reporting an illegal.
The question still is, how do they handle a delicate situation without unlawfully detaining people until they receive a deportation hearing? And, if it involves a family, should the entire family be deported including the one/s which were born in the USA too? Very touchy. Sometimes considered unfair to deport one and not the other. It's a rock and a hard place, IMO. How to be fair, ethical and humanitarian all in one.
Fair and ethical? Fair and ethical is to enforce the law without regard to race, sex, religion or age. On one hand there is the illegal who is in violation of our laws. They came here seeking something better than what they have left behind. I get that, most of us do. What is ethical about illegals lowballing wages and forcing legals out of their trades? What is fair or ethical about illegals using a citizens name and ssn? Often destroying their good name forcing them to hire lawyers etc to correct the mess? The only fair and ethical thing to do is to enforce our laws which are supposed to protect we the people.
Does it suck to be the illegal? Yes. Just as it sucks to be the man sent away to jail for the crimes he committed. The illegals are intact committing crimes that would send the average citizen to prison.
Humanitarian? Now that is an interesting position. Some would say as a generous if not so wealthy nation that we can afford to be more sympathetic towards the illegals and just grant the free pass 1 more time.
Some would say by not jailing them for the crimes they have committed and just deporting them that this is a gesture of kindness.
Me? I am for passing E-verify laws with big penalties for violators. I would expand E-verify to include landlords and banking institutions. Make life very difficult for an illegal to live here. They will self deport just as we have seen in states where they cracked down.
Is it the nice guy approach? NO is it the fair and ethical approach? I believe that it is. No different than Locking your doors, hiring a security guard or buying a guard dog to protect what is yours. You are denying the criminal the ability to succeed.
As for those with anchor children. Hard hearted or not the illegal has the right to take their child with them.
Many of us wait years for our step children to pass through the system to be with us in the USA. My wife now a citizen looks forward to a 7 years wait before her daughter can get her VISA. Why is it acceptable for legals to be separated but so wrong for illegals to be separated?
Good grief. You have some issues you need to address, starting with comprehension.
Here is my original post and NO WHERE do I mention name calling. NO WHERE did I say I left the forum because of name calling. You should have checked before you put your foot in your mouth and embarrassed yourself - again. You are not as smart and clever as you think you are.
Quote:
LOL. I didn't bring Obama into it YOU DID, and now you are saying it has nothing to do with anti or pro illegal immigration.
Please continue to show the purpose behind this thread which is the absence of "Reasonable posts and behavior".
My GAWD!!!
You fail in understanding even what is being discussed. Lets refresh.... you claimed you left this forum because of the name calling....you were called un-American....yada, yada, yada.
I found a post where you called Obama un-American, hence you were name calling, ya'know the same thing that you left this forum for. Do you even get my point?
Fair and ethical? Fair and ethical is to enforce the law without regard to race, sex, religion or age. On one hand there is the illegal who is in violation of our laws. They came here seeking something better than what they have left behind. I get that, most of us do. What is ethical about illegals lowballing wages and forcing legals out of their trades? What is fair or ethical about illegals using a citizens name and ssn? Often destroying their good name forcing them to hire lawyers etc to correct the mess? The only fair and ethical thing to do is to enforce our laws which are supposed to protect we the people.
Does it suck to be the illegal? Yes. Just as it sucks to be the man sent away to jail for the crimes he committed. The illegals are intact committing crimes that would send the average citizen to prison.
Humanitarian? Now that is an interesting position. Some would say as a generous if not so wealthy nation that we can afford to be more sympathetic towards the illegals and just grant the free pass 1 more time.
Some would say by not jailing them for the crimes they have committed and just deporting them that this is a gesture of kindness.
Me? I am for passing E-verify laws with big penalties for violators. I would expand E-verify to include landlords and banking institutions. Make life very difficult for an illegal to live here. They will self deport just as we have seen in states where they cracked down.
Is it the nice guy approach? NO is it the fair and ethical approach? I believe that it is. No different than Locking your doors, hiring a security guard or buying a guard dog to protect what is yours. You are denying the criminal the ability to succeed.
As for those with anchor children. Hard hearted or not the illegal has the right to take their child with them.
Many of us wait years for our step children to pass through the system to be with us in the USA. My wife now a citizen looks forward to a 7 years wait before her daughter can get her VISA. Why is it acceptable for legals to be separated but so wrong for illegals to be separated?
I'll admit illegal immigration is a problem, but it seems that local government agencies hands are tied when it comes to reporting an illegal.
The question still is, how do they handle a delicate situation without unlawfully detaining people until they receive a deportation hearing? And, if it involves a family, should the entire family be deported including the one/s which were born in the USA too? Very touchy. Sometimes considered unfair to deport one and not the other. It's a rock and a hard place, IMO. How to be fair, ethical and humanitarian all in one.
Illegals are not protected by the 4th Amendment, once they are determined to be illegal they can be detained, no questions, no miranda, no nothing. The children, whether born here or not, are the responsibility of the parent(s). Sending the child back with them doesn't change the childs place of birth. The child must make a choice once he/she has become of age to choose which citizenship they desire, US or ______ (wherever they are deported to). Humanitarian is to leave the child with the parent, not take the child and place them into foster care, as has been done.
Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-06-2013 at 04:46 PM..
Well, that's why I rarely visit the immigration forum, people get ticked off, which I was after reading some posts about how much illegals cost America, and I just had to throw my opinions and feelings out there about them. Now you're ticked off too. See? This forum basically turns into vitriol after a few opinions, and nothing is ever resolved. Makes you wonder how our government can tackle the illegal immigration problems we face as a nation without them getting into fisticuffs with each other. Sure glad I'm not a representative congressperson, because I wouldn't know where or how to begin with caring for people who have come here looking for a better life and then becoming sick or injured.
When you quote a comment from another poster and completely fail in comprehending what that poster is stating, it makes you look wrong, not the other poster. Your 2 cents should have been in an open comment not one that you were quoting another commenter in. Seems you brought the "ticked off" by yourself. Others simply attempted to correct you and have you discuss the quote you quoted vs randomly exclaiming things that didn't pertain to the quote.
Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-06-2013 at 04:46 PM..
I would love to see some reasonable debate here, some civil behavior. Unfortunately illegal immigration is a hot topic and very emotional to some folks, as a result it often takes just one off topic post to derail the whole thread, as everybody is waiting to debunk the talking points of the other side.
I would also love if some critical thought was given regarding the sources cited. At this moment most of the posters here have this "if it proves my point, it's legit. if it doesn't - it's the iniernet/wiki/biased blog/whatever, it's wrong because of that". Here's a news flash for you - both sides of this issue have good and bad arguments, both have well researched articles and poorly researched propaganda pieces.
I wish some of you would be less confrontational, getting angry and up in arms whenever someone posts an opinion you disagree with.
Yac.
Perhaps, with some topics "both" sides may have legitimate arguments. However, when it comes to gay issues, I have yet to see a rational, coherent argument by the homophobes, (which are quite obsessed with this particular issue I might add), that supports why gays should not be entitled to the same equality as straights, with the same marriage rights. Some of the responses by the homophobes we see are so ridiculous. Most of these people have no clue what they're even talking about, often times with using facts that have no basis, or facts dis-proven over 50 years ago.
Since including sexual orientation, and SSM discussion in many high school psychology and sociology courses is still not the norm, particularly in red states, unless it teaches only the negative, people often never acquire any intellectual understanding of sexual orientation, and continue to base their opinions on lies, and misinformation, thereby allowing themselves to rationalize their hatred against gays even though it isn't justified. Sadly, most of these people don't have the slightest hint how stupid they sound when they attack. Often times, people will rationalize their argument through religion; all of a sudden, becoming so religious, solely when this particular issue arises, ignoring the fact that we do have freedom of religion in this country. Yet, whenever discussion surrounding divorce, birth control, sex out of wed lock, women's issues, slavery. etc, the issue of religion never raises its ugly head. It's like arguing with someone who insists on believing that the world is flat, when you know it is round, and the more they argue, the more ridiculous their argument gets. Sadly, the gay issues are not policed as carefully, or with as much scrutiny as the similar posts dealing with immigration and race.
Why would anyone get ticked about someone pointing out the facts and truth such as how much illegals are costing our country? Does one prefer to stick their head in the sand because they can't accept the truth because it doesn't fit their agenda/ideologies?
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