U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-12-2013, 07:47 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
I'd like to address this issue with first hand experience. For many years I worked in construction as a concrete carpenter. In the early eighties when I started, you seldom saw illegals doing construction in our part of the country. When you did, they were mostly French Canadians down in the states working when things got slow at home.

By the time I left the business around 2005, there were more immigrants than "native local folks" doing the bulk of the work. Why? Because construction and concrete in particular is an unforgiving way to make a living. The hours are long, the work extremely hard, you're in the elements from the break of day until and sometimes after dark. We would spend thousands of dollars a year in classified advertising trying to keep our ranks full to no avail. The majority of American kids had become far too lazy and undisciplined to do that kind work.

In spite of the fact that we'd offer a starting pay of 12 to 14 dollars an hour for unskilled labor (and upwards of 20+ an hour after a couple years training, you couldn't find but maybe 1 out of 50 - 75 American-born kids who would stick with the job. The illegals started showing up in the mid 90's and they literally saved the business. The bitching and moaning was kept to a minimum, they listened to direction (once you could get past the language barrier) and they did the work.

Contrary to what you might hear, these "illegals" all had SS# that they used and were all paid above board. Here's something the government doesn't want you to know - Those "illegals" had taxes taken out of their pay just like you and me. The difference was, when tax time came, they didn't file.........because they were illegal (duh). So all that money that was taken out of their pay over the course of the year, remained in the government coffers. I firmly believe that the government knew that the SS#s were no good but they turned their back on that to reap the rewards.

The next time anybody climbs on a high horse to protest the use of illegals, especially in the construction field, take a look at your own kid (or your friend's or neighbor's) playing xbox on the couch and working a part time gig at the local Best Buy for pocket money or more common still, not working at all and remember: As much as you detest what you think illegals stand for, they do indeed serve a purpose. They're doing the jobs that the current day American youth are too lazy or "proud" to do..........and a great many of them are paying for that "privilege".
Uh; tell THAT to Americans who do work in those trades and now can't find work or at least make Ok money because of illegal aliens. Too, where you live is high $$$ and people need to pay more to keep good help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-12-2013, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Down the rabbit hole
847 posts, read 891,802 times
Reputation: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
And those SSN's? The people who they really belonged to and got audited by the IRS because they didn't report those earnings, what about them? Those people who get mysterious calls from creditors for loans not paid. They wouldn't happen to be victims of ID theft would they?
I was also in the construction field as were my brothers and cousins. In the 80's you competed against fly by night lowballers. In the 90's the illegals came in and lowballed the lowballs. They could do this because they didn't pay taxes, have insurance or honor the warranty on their work.
Cat dancer paints a rosy picture of how illegals improve our lives and we just can't live with out them. Of how illegals pay their taxes but alas they get screwed in the end.
Well where I live Dairy country those lazy kids he talks about still work the fields. Those lazy kids work the stone quarry, and those lazy kids work for a living.
First, it's not what I'd call a rosy picture, more like a sad statement of the state of America's youth.

Second - did it occur to you that the kids work the farm because being a family business they have no choice or that it's their legacy? and really, I've lived near a stone quarry and they're hardly a font of employment opportunity and again, they often seem to use that legacy type of employment much like mine work.

Third - ID theft? Hardly, most of those numbers were made up off the top of their heads. The only time they'd be rejected by SS was when they didn't follow the 3-2-4 digit format.

Maybe you missed it in my post but I purposely pointed out that they did indeed pay taxes and though I didn't mention it, the people that employed them did, without a doubt, have insurance. Try doing business in a competitive atmosphere without it. Lastly, if you worked construction than you should know, for the last 20 years or more, it's been nearly impossible to pay a large crew....or even a small one under the table.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2013, 07:54 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
I'd like to address this issue with first hand experience. For many years I worked in construction as a concrete carpenter. In the early eighties when I started, you seldom saw illegals doing construction in our part of the country. When you did, they were mostly French Canadians down in the states working when things got slow at home.

By the time I left the business around 2005, there were more immigrants than "native local folks" doing the bulk of the work. Why? Because construction and concrete in particular is an unforgiving way to make a living. The hours are long, the work extremely hard, you're in the elements from the break of day until and sometimes after dark. We would spend thousands of dollars a year in classified advertising trying to keep our ranks full to no avail. The majority of American kids had become far too lazy and undisciplined to do that kind work.

In spite of the fact that we'd offer a starting pay of 12 to 14 dollars an hour for unskilled labor (and upwards of 20+ an hour after a couple years training, you couldn't find but maybe 1 out of 50 - 75 American-born kids who would stick with the job. The illegals started showing up in the mid 90's and they literally saved the business. The bitching and moaning was kept to a minimum, they listened to direction (once you could get past the language barrier) and they did the work.

Contrary to what you might hear, these "illegals" all had SS# that they used and were all paid above board. Here's something the government doesn't want you to know - Those "illegals" had taxes taken out of their pay just like you and me. The difference was, when tax time came, they didn't file.........because they were illegal (duh). So all that money that was taken out of their pay over the course of the year, remained in the government coffers. I firmly believe that the government knew that the SS#s were no good but they turned their back on that to reap the rewards.

The next time anybody climbs on a high horse to protest the use of illegals, especially in the construction field, take a look at your own kid (or your friend's or neighbor's) playing xbox on the couch and working a part time gig at the local Best Buy for pocket money or more common still, not working at all and remember: As much as you detest what you think illegals stand for, they do indeed serve a purpose. They're doing the jobs that the current day American youth are too lazy or "proud" to do..........and a great many of them are paying for that "privilege".
How odd. Most the construction workers I use to know weren't "kids" but adults and many if not most of them were middle aged. They were replaced by illegals because they worked cheaper not because these construction workers all of a sudden became lazy. If illegals pay taxes they don't get back consider it helping to cover their social costs that are passed on to we the taxpayer.

It wouldn't matter if Americans suddenly became lazy anyway. It is against the law for employers to hire illegals and it is against the law for illegals to be living or working here. Or doesn't that matter to you?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2013, 10:43 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
Contrary to what you might hear, these "illegals" all had SS# that they used and were all paid above board. Here's something the government doesn't want you to know - Those "illegals" had taxes taken out of their pay just like you and me. The difference was, when tax time came, they didn't file.........because they were illegal (duh). So all that money that was taken out of their pay over the course of the year, remained in the government coffers. I firmly believe that the government knew that the SS#s were no good but they turned their back on that to reap the rewards.

The next time anybody climbs on a high horse to protest the use of illegals, especially in the construction field, take a look at your own kid (or your friend's or neighbor's) playing xbox on the couch and working a part time gig at the local Best Buy for pocket money or more common still, not working at all and remember: As much as you detest what you think illegals stand for, they do indeed serve a purpose. They're doing the jobs that the current day American youth are too lazy or "proud" to do..........and a great many of them are paying for that "privilege".
They didn't file? How do you explain over $7 Billion in tax credits to them then for having filed tax forms and gotten returns much larger then what may have had deducted from their paychecks?
Quote:
The Treasury Department’s inspector general for tax administration has already said that unauthorized workers claimed $4.2 billion in Additional Child Tax Credits (ACTC) in 2010.
Read more: Senate Republican: Unauthorized claims for child credit could hit $7 billion - The Hill's On The Money




All that money in govt coffers? The only monies that go into "coffers" are the SS deductions, to which they can even obtain those withholdings if their home govt has an agreement with the US. International Programs - U.S. International Social Security Agreements

Maybe one should actually have an understanding of which they speak. You don't seem to know very much and have done nothing more than espouse already debunked propaganda.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-12-2013 at 11:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2013, 12:26 AM
 
1,866 posts, read 2,168,904 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; tell THAT to Americans who do work in those trades and now can't find work or at least make Ok money because of illegal aliens. Too, where you live is high $$$ and people need to pay more to keep good help.
Again, they can go to college and get a degree to make themselves more marketable. There is nothing stopping them. The days of not having a bachelor's degree and making 50-60k are over. You need experience and education nowadays. If they don't want to get it, that's fine, but they shouldn't complain when they get passed up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2013, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Down the rabbit hole
847 posts, read 891,802 times
Reputation: 2657
[quote=Liquid Reigns;30937387]They didn't file? How do you explain over $7 Billion in tax credits to them then for having filed tax forms and gotten returns much larger then what may have had deducted from their paychecks?


Source?

I related a story based on personal experience and the first thing people want to do is stomp all over it with fox news like zeal. OH - and then get accused of espousing debunked propaganda. Like it or not, believe it or not, that's how it was..... at least up into 2005 So throwing statistics out there from 2010 just shows how much attention you paid to what I wrote. Things might have been different 5 years after I got out of the business, I'm not involved enough any more to say


I never claimed that illegal immigrants don't pose a problem, they pose many. I do know however that even when the construction market crashed, illegals made up a good portion of the work force and they still do.
Because even with unemployment at 8% (or probably higher) it's still nearly impossible to get American kids to do work that hard..........

What i presented was a picture of how things were, not some hyped up commentary under the guise of news. It's curious to see people get all huffed up and bothered anytime somebody puts a story out there
that doesn't trash illegals.

Quote:[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"] All that money in govt coffers? The only monies that go into "coffers" are the SS deductions, to which they can even obtain those withholdings if their home govt has an agreement with the US. International Programs - U.S. International Social Security Agreements[/color]

yes - deductions they used to be too scared to claim. I don't know how they're working that now but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they're getting that money back, they dislike taxes as much as we do. Don't hate the people who are trying to escape unimaginable poverty, hate the government that's too inept to manage the problem

........and by the way, the link you posted above? It's no good. I found it anyway and none of the countries that we have that agreement with are in South or Central America nor Mexico, save one: Chile. Which makes one wonder - what the hell does that have to do with anything? Did you even read the link? or did you just get it from another propaganda site?

Here's the correct link - International Programs - U.S. International Social Security Agreements - read it and tell me how it pertains to illegal aliens.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2013, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Down the rabbit hole
847 posts, read 891,802 times
Reputation: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
They didn't file? How do you explain over $7 Billion in tax credits to them then for having filed tax forms and gotten returns much larger then what may have had deducted from their paychecks?
Source?


I related a story based on personal experience and the first thing people want to do is stomp all over it with fox news like zeal. OH - and then get accused of espousing debunked propaganda. Like it or not, believe it or not, that's how it was..... at least up into 2005 So throwing statistics out there from 2010 just shows how much attention you paid to what I wrote. Things might have been different 5 years after I got out of the business, I'm not involved enough any more to say


I never claimed that illegal immigrants don't pose a problem, they pose many. I do know however that even when the construction market crashed, illegals made up a good portion of the work force and they still do.
Because even with unemployment at 8% (or probably higher) it's still nearly impossible to get American kids to do work that hard..........

What i presented was a picture of how things were, not some hyped up commentary under the guise of news. It's curious to see people get all huffed up and bothered anytime somebody puts a story out there that doesn't trash illegals.


Quote: All that money in govt coffers? The only monies that go into "coffers" are the SS deductions, to which they can even obtain those withholdings if their home govt has an agreement with the US. International Programs - U.S. International Social Security Agreements

yes - deductions they used to be too scared to claim. I don't know how they're working that now but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they're getting that money back, they dislike taxes as much as we do. Don't hate the people who are trying to escape unimaginable poverty, hate the government that's too inept to manage the problem

........and by the way, none of the countries that we have that agreement with are in South or Central America nor Mexico, save one: Chile. Which makes one wonder - what the hell does that have to do with anything? Did you even read the link? or did you just get it from another propaganda site? Read it and please explain how it's germane.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2013, 07:22 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackscorpion View Post
Again, they can go to college and get a degree to make themselves more marketable. There is nothing stopping them. The days of not having a bachelor's degree and making 50-60k are over. You need experience and education nowadays. If they don't want to get it, that's fine, but they shouldn't complain when they get passed up.
Not all people are "college people". The US would fall to pieces if there were no carpenters, mechanics, truck drivers and so on. Too; word is not all college degrees pay real well.

I really don't care if $$$ places like New York, Cali and so on fall apart because the illegal aliens all went home and the greedy people living in those places can't pay the money for Americans to fix things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2013, 08:11 AM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8363
I get sick of the desperate attempts to justify illegals taking over blue-collared jobs that many Americans love to do. Of all the nerve to suggest that an American who loves construction work, landscaping etc. should move over and give their jobs to illegals and become a white collared worker even though they aren't cut out for or want to do those types of jobs. Ridiculous! Whose country is this anyway? Illegal foreigners? I don't think so!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2013, 08:30 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
Source?
You can look up the treasury report just like you looked up the Totalization Agreement link.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
I related a story based on personal experience and the first thing people want to do is stomp all over it with fox news like zeal. OH - and then get accused of espousing debunked propaganda. Like it or not, believe it or not, that's how it was..... at least up into 2005 So throwing statistics out there from 2010 just shows how much attention you paid to what I wrote. Things might have been different 5 years after I got out of the business, I'm not involved enough any more to say
You realted your opinion of things that you think happened. Illegals have always filed tax forms, its just that when an amnesty is proposed they use those forms to show they were in the US for the required amount of time, its been like that since the '80's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
I never claimed that illegal immigrants don't pose a problem, they pose many. I do know however that even when the construction market crashed, illegals made up a good portion of the work force and they still do.
Because even with unemployment at 8% (or probably higher) it's still nearly impossible to get American kids to do work that hard..........
Yes, illegals still make up a good portion of the construction work force. Our kids today prefer college over anything else, its been instilled into them for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
What i presented was a picture of how things were, not some hyped up commentary under the guise of news. It's curious to see people get all huffed up and bothered anytime somebody puts a story out there that doesn't trash illegals.
What you presented was nothing more then your opinion of what you thought illegals did. Your opinion holds very little influence on reality. I deal with illegals on a daily basis in my profession, I compete against them and companies that hire them, so yea, some of us do get a little "huffed up" especially when someone presents opinion like its some sort of reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
yes - deductions they used to be too scared to claim. I don't know how they're working that now but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they're getting that money back, they dislike taxes as much as we do. Don't hate the people who are trying to escape unimaginable poverty, hate the government that's too inept to manage the problem
Again....opinion. Since the '80's they have been filing tax returns and claiming deductions. What has increased is the number of illegals filing. Unimaginable poverty? Most come here simply as a right of passage. Many come because of better wages, they can support their entire family for life simply by working here for 5 to 10 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
........and by the way, none of the countries that we have that agreement with are in South or Central America nor Mexico, save one: Chile. Which makes one wonder - what the hell does that have to do with anything? Did you even read the link? or did you just get it from another propaganda site? Read it and please explain how it's germane.
Only illegals come from Latin America? Totalization Agreements do allow illegals to collect their SS wages withheld while having worked in the US. To question whether I read my link or not I hilarious, Illegals come from all countries, not just Latin America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top