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Old 12-06-2007, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,622,587 times
Reputation: 3668

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Then they have no reason to complain about them getting their jobs stolen. Its a dog eat world out there, I'm pretty sure your aware of that as you are an adult. Although, unemployment rates have remained stagnant over the years.
Uh, ProLogic:

Quite a few Americans, etc. with college degrees are losing their $$$ careers to $ tech support people in places like India.

As I have commented on in the past: due to such a glut of college educated people out there, even a BA/BS no longer carries the same cachet compared to, say, 1966.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:51 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 319,056 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Uh, ProLogic:

Quite a few Americans, etc. with college degrees are losing their $$$ careers to $ tech support people in places like India.

As I have commented on in the past: due to such a glut of college educated people out there, even a BA/BS no longer carries the same cachet compared to, say, 1966.

Yep, and then theres outsourcing.. That is something we really need to stop more so than Immigration.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Denver
8,127 posts, read 10,151,760 times
Reputation: 3987
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Uh, ProLogic:

Quite a few Americans, etc. with college degrees are losing their $$$ careers to $ tech support people in places like India.

As I have commented on in the past: due to such a glut of college educated people out there, even a BA/BS no longer carries the same cachet compared to, say, 1966.
200k is the new 100k too.

What can we do? So even though we are losing those entry tech jobs to outsourcing, Americans are getting more educated and innovative.

Competition drives innovation.

Last edited by Mach50; 12-06-2007 at 07:16 PM..
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,622,587 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
200k is the new 100k too.

What can we do? So even though we are losing those entry tech jobs to outsourcing, Americans are getting more educated and innovative.

Competition drives innovation.
Which should be driving wages upward in automotive repair, construction and even so-called 'low class' jobs like landscaping.

Trust me: when your A/C goes out on a summer day here in Phoenix; your local HVAC tech is 'god'.

Yet; as we all know, the greedy employers do not see things that way and will use every trick (legal or not) to keep wages down so the above can live like the 'leisure class' of old.
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Central Valley, CA
2,007 posts, read 1,320,212 times
Reputation: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
So guess who's complaining about illegal immigration for the most part? the people that didn't want to get a college degree. I'm pretty damn sure they want to make more money, but don't want to go to school for it. what does that say?
There's a difference between what you're saying and the real world. I could have gone to college, but I didn't want to. I could have gone to a trade school to learn what I do, but instead I started at the bottom and WORKED my way up. The problem with what you keep saying is that there is NOT enough white collar jobs for everyone, nor does everyone WANT a white collar job. I would go ape $#*% sitting behind a desk all day, and I happen to enjoy what I do. I am also perfectly content with the money I make, and as a matter of fact many college graduates make less than me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic
But the problem is that anyone can get a degree these days. They have dumbed down the schools so much that idiots are graduating college. They were dumbing down the schools anyway way back when but when affirmative action started they really went into high gear.
Exactly why a college degree doesn't mean all that much anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic
Then they have no reason to complain about them getting their jobs stolen. Its a dog eat world out there, I'm pretty sure your aware of that as you are an adult. Although, unemployment rates have remained stagnant over the years.
How dare you say this. They have EVERY RIGHT to complain and be furious! Just because you don't want to do blue collar work, doesn't mean there aren't people who do. I'm tired of people looking down on blue collar work like it's degrading and people should want better for themselves. What about the construction worker who's been doing the job he has for 20 years, and now he has to "go to college" and get another career in his 40's? And he has no right to complain?

For an example, I used to work building sheds and was a subcontractor. I used a helper, as did the other guys that built sheds for the same company. I paid my helper a third of what the job paid, which on average was about $120 a day, depending on the size of the shed, some took 4 hours and some took 14 hours, so the pay would depend on the job. One of the other guys that worked there (who was Mexican by the way) would go down to home depot and pick up an illegal and pay him 50 dollars a day, and since he had seniority he got most of the big sheds, so 12 to 14 hours. The smallest shed would pay about $275 (4 hours) so the LEAST I paid my helper was about $92. My sheds were built BETTER and just as fast if not FASTER than a couple of illegals could do it (sorry, hearing that Americans can't work as hard is crap) and everyone was happy. So exactly what's going on with businesses, paying someone a fair wage without raising prices is most certainly possible, but why don't they? GREED. That's what illegal immigration is all about and why it's been allowed to go on for so long. They would have to take less profit. The elimination of illegals will force companies to pay a fair wage, and everyone in the blue collar workforce will benefit. America needs the blue collar workforce and wouldn't function without it, and that workforce belongs to AMERICANS LIKE ME, and I'm not handing it over so the rich can get richer.
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:07 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,805 posts, read 5,480,850 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
From that statement I can automatically assume your one of those people that didn't want to get a college degree. Guess what, my dad didn't get a college degree. Oh how he regrets it. But fact is, he had to support me and my mom and gave up going to college at night. He couldn't manage a job and going to college at the same time. So guess who's complaining about illegal immigration for the most part? the people that didn't want to get a college degree. I'm pretty damn sure they want to make more money, but don't want to go to school for it. what does that say?
I'm in college working on my M.A. and then on to graduate school--and I'm complaining long and loud about illegal immigration. When I'm through with my degree, I won't make as much money as many blue collar workers, but I'll be doing what I love.

It isn't all about the downsized wages in the labor market for blue collar workers, although that's an important part of the problem. Just as American tax dollars subsidizing illegal behavior and its consequences is an important part of the problem.

This is about whether or not the United States of America, as a sovereign nation, has the right and the obligation to its own citizens, to secure our borders and enforce our laws.

Let me ask you this. Does Mexico, as a sovereign nation, have the right to enforce its own laws? Does it have the right to make laws which benefit its own citizens before non citizens? Your answer to these questions, if you answer honestly, should be yes.

Then why do you deny the United States of America that same right?
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,307 posts, read 11,503,237 times
Reputation: 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Then they have no reason to complain about them getting their jobs stolen. Its a dog eat world out there, I'm pretty sure your aware of that as you are an adult. Although, unemployment rates have remained stagnant over the years.
Prologic I like you but this is the worst post you have written yet.
This is the same as saying you have no reason to complain if you get your car stolen. Its a dog eat dog world and maybe the criminals needed or wanted your car more than you did.
No its a world of rules and laws. Illegals who dont even have the right to be here have no right to take jobs from legal, honest people.
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:05 PM
 
635 posts, read 1,171,646 times
Reputation: 111
I see the roofers, construction industry, and the agriculture sector is struggling in Oklahoma. Other states are economically concerned about passing laws after seeing what has happened to Oklahomans. For example if they pass an anti-immigration law in Kansas, the meatpacking industry would be in serious trouble, resulting in you paying much more in the supermarket for meat. Arizona is going to say goodnight come Jan. 1.
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:06 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 2,175,931 times
Reputation: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Thats B.S, anyone can get a degree. Everyone can go to college, JC's charge what. $20 per credit?
I've never in my life heard of $20/credit! Where I live, I don't think it's EVER been that low. Now, it's at least in the range of $300 - at least at the state colleges where I live.

Also, not everyone wants to go to school, and not everyone can get a good job. Most of the jobs we are now developing are in the service sector, which do not pay well. Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you get a good job!
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:09 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 2,175,931 times
Reputation: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisLord View Post
I see the roofers, construction industry, and the agriculture sector is struggling in Oklahoma. Other states are economically concerned about passing laws after seeing what has happened to Oklahomans. For example if they pass an anti-immigration law in Kansas, the meatpacking industry would be in serious trouble, resulting in you paying much more in the supermarket for meat. Arizona is going to say goodnight come Jan. 1.
Most Americans would be happy to pay more, and it's a myth that it would be REALLY high - maybe a few cents higher.

That's the Open Borders Crowd propaganda.
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