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Old 12-08-2007, 03:51 AM
 
1,304 posts, read 2,920,693 times
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Hey Everyone.. we are not Zonies yet.. but soon hope to be. But did want to say that the Southwest is not the only place that has a major problem with illegals. We have seen just in the last 3 years here in Indiana a huge influx, about 300,000 illegals. i have NO problem with them looking to better themselves.. none at all! it's the children they raise is what we are cercerned about. Dropouts, gangbangers, drugdealers, gang writtings all over everything they can get thier little hands on! As long as they still can sneak over, and the law continues to allow automatic citizenship just because they were able to sneak accross the border to give birth.. not much in that will change. Housing has gone thru the roof here. The college kids cant find summer jobs any longer. They just busted a mexican grocery store for selling stolen social security numbers, selling about 200 of them a month! Our local welfare, schools, medical center ect, have all had to hire extra spanish speaking help because of the influx in illegals. Two of our friends have been hit by un-licensed un-insured illegals in which both had false id's and stolen social security cards. if they are here legally, by all means.. we hope them the best. The costs that we pay now, hugely out weighs any inpack we'll have on lost workers. We need to keep Americans working. We need to keep the jobs in America! I would gladly pay more for something made in America, then pay less for junk made in mexico or china! Went to buy some canned peaches the otherday. looked on the back only to find that they were imported from CHINA! peaches from china. What.. did we run out of peach growers here in America? Went to walmart and got some gummybears, only to find out they were from china as well.. I returned them! Who would have thought you need to check gummybears? I for one will not buy food products from CHINA! We now check EVERY product before we buy. We want products made by Americans.. is that too much to ask for LOL!
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
27,808 posts, read 37,842,567 times
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Well, the judge tossed out the case and it looks like the opponents will have to wait until after the law takes effect to sue. BTW, the law does not require employers to verify existing workers, only new hires, so there will not be some mad exodus on Jan 1.
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Old 12-08-2007, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,357,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Well, the judge tossed out the case and it looks like the opponents will have to wait until after the law takes effect to sue. BTW, the law does not require employers to verify existing workers, only new hires, so there will not be some mad exodus on Jan 1.
You are correct - they don't have to verify existing workers.

However, many are, and have done so already. Voluntarily. And, many workers have been fired and/or quit already.

While I agree with "no mad exodus" - many have already left
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,308 posts, read 25,652,204 times
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You are absolutely correct, Arizona Bound

Unfortunately, the illegal situation has created major problems for all Citizens of the United States, not just Arizona. In fact, many states are being hit as hard if not harder than we are.

As I have posted many times before . . . Once the Illegals have snubbed their noses at our Immigration Laws and Border Patrol Officers, why would anyone with even half a brain expect them to honor and respect any of our laws.
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You are correct - they don't have to verify existing workers.

However, many are, and have done so already. Voluntarily. And, many workers have been fired and/or quit already.

While I agree with "no mad exodus" - many have already left
Works for me; if even only a few hundred illegals left each day, after a few months it would be significant
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Southern California native, last 20 yrs in Milwaukee Wisc.
1,142 posts, read 3,316,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisLord View Post
Do you believe the January 1st Illegal Immigration law causing all employers to verify legal workers in Arizona will hurt or benefit the state of Arizona? Do you believe illegal immigrants will leave and the businesses will stop or continue to hire them? Oklahoma's economy is hurting from losing 75,000 illegals. I could only manage what will happen if Arizona loses 500,000 illegals.
Yeah, let's all worry about economic things like having cheap vegetables, cheap maids, etc., etc. I think the economy is capable of chugging along without millions of poorly educated immigrants pouring in, especially when you factor in what they cost us in educating their kids, criminal activity, illegitimate births, health care, etc.
Even *if* they were an economic plus, more sensible folks like me are more concerned about maintaining the borders, language, and culture that have served us well for a long time. Without those unifying elements, this will not be a stable country, or the America we know today. I'll gladly pay a little more for things, or have some economic hardship, than see this country become, little by little, more like Mexico or Central America.
I'm from the southwest originally, and don't like what it is becoming. Nor do most of folks out there. And that's the reason this bill came about, and hopefully it will put a damper on the invasion.

Last edited by mrkool; 12-08-2007 at 04:43 PM..
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Shumway, Az.
139 posts, read 376,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisLord View Post
Do you believe the January 1st Illegal Immigration law causing all employers to verify legal workers in Arizona will hurt or benefit the state of Arizona? Do you believe illegal immigrants will leave and the businesses will stop or continue to hire them? Oklahoma's economy is hurting from losing 75,000 illegals. I could only manage what will happen if Arizona loses 500,000 illegals.
I know this may sound bad, coming from a Christian but..............

We all need to hit the streets on our local towns and start a movement on this. I am sick of all these law breakers. This isn't only in Arizona, but the whole Nation!!

I greatly appreciate the INSANE work of people like Reid, Pelossi, and Spitzer. They are helping to wake up the public and see the path of insanity that many LOONS want to lead this country down.

Never mind that this is illegal and Unconstitutional, but do consider the horrible cost in too many ways to list. The first is total disrespect for the law and the Constitution. The second is loss of national sovereignty and respect. The third is making hard-working and legal citizens pay the bills for illegal aliens. The fourth is exposing our public to terrorists, dope runners, and many kinds of criminals that we will all pay for. The list goes on and on and on. Anyone with any common sense will simply say NO! - You can't do that! - You won't be allowed to do that! - If you try it, we'll file criminal and civil charges and remove you from office!

The Rule of Law Prevails Here - the Law of the People. Our elected representatives had best enforce our laws or face the consequences! If they want our laws and Constitution ignored, they WILL let the people vote on the issues. Otherwise, our representatives need to be sent to prison and learn there is a consequence for dereliction of duty.


If immigration does their job and picks up illegal aliens from local authorities in a timely manner, there is no excuse for any city to ignore enforcement of the law. It hasn't been that long ago that immigration didn't pick them up at all, and it bankrupted jail budgets. As a result, police were ordered to stop arresting illegal aliens for many years in most parts of the country.

Many of our problems today are a direct result of higher levels of government refusing to do their duty. It isn't a matter of choice, and there are civil and criminal consequences for dereliction of duty. It's only right that the ones at the top should be charged first. Securing our borders isn't a matter of choice either, and the same consequences apply to dereliction of duty.
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:59 PM
 
2 posts, read 3,714 times
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Cool Not a problem? Try Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Won't be that kind of problem. Many are leaving now.

What will happen is that there will be far less financial burdens on the AZ taxpayers - more money will become available to improve schools, roads, healthcare services etc.

Jobs that become open will be filled

New, legal residents are coming, in droves each month - those empty homes will not be empty for long -

The benefits outweigh any negatives IMO
As Hispanic, I love my people, but I do not set a blind eye to them, and I know that there are many that don't need the help and apply for it. I've seen people with 4-6 kids who didn't pay a dime to have them, while they own jewelry, nice vehicles with rims and accessories, and use public benefits.

However, many illegals DO pay taxes, and many don't claim them in their returns because they pay them through withholding, thus it's free money for the government. Also, since many illegals use fake ss#'s, the government has multiple instances of one number working and paying taxes. So if people are leaving the state and there are less physical taxpayers, there will be less money coming in for the government, as it is being experienced right now with the illegals already fleeing the state.

You also seem to be unaware that illegals usually work for less wages than legals do, and they usually do it without benefits that often are required by law, such as paid vacations, work safety, etc. I agree, jobs will become vacant and will be filled, but you also have to look beyond the immediate effect. Higher wages, benefits, and expense of work security will increase the cost of many businesses and thus, the price of many commodities we currently enjoy will also have to go up for these businesses to keep making a profit.

As far as the houses, I don't know if you live in Arizona, but the real estate market is not where you want to be...trust me. Also, houses don't have to be empty for a long time to have a negative effect on the economy. It's the number of houses that matters. One here...one there...one over there. They add up, and if houses are empty, neighborhoods decrease in value, and if illegals flee without paying their houses (or property tax), banks are stuck with houses that are depreciated, and with no one to pay them, the real estate market plummets.
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Old 12-09-2007, 05:49 AM
 
1,304 posts, read 2,920,693 times
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Default Sad..

That's pretty sad when an illegal can purchase a home.. when we have true hard working Americans that still can not. It's pretty sad when you have to ask for a different rep/sales person only because you can not understand the first one because of bad english. It's pretty sad when you have to turn a box of cereal to the correct side to find the english writting. It's pretty sad when you have to push 1 for english and so on. Everywhere.. and I mean EVERYWHERE you turn, hospitals, doctors, grocery stores, post office, telephone co, banks, library, newspapers, tv.. everywhere and everything has spanish on it. So what does that tell you all? Anyone that says that illegals only take jobs no one wants,, is full of it. They are able to obtain false id's and take all kinds of jobs getting paid just as well as everyone else. We live in a very small town, about 15,000 with about 5,000 being mexican. We have already been inadated with graffiti and gang activity. We never use to have what you would term.. a crime rate. Just the otherday 5 mexican boys beat up 1 boy so they could steal his bike and cell phone. They later caught the boys who were in thier late teens. They really hurt the American boy who was only 13! I can not help getting angry when I hear about stuff like that. The mexican boys parents are probably nice people, but that's not the big issue. it's thier kids! No control over thier children. Enough is ENOUGH. Just watch the REAL life tv programs cops, america's most wanted, msnbc's locked up. I really don't want to sound racist because I'm not. it's like the old saying.. you have to take the good with the bad. In this case.. WE SHOULDN'T have to. By completely shoring up our borders, by completely arresting and deporting every illegal... do you realize the huge huge decline we would see in crime! Do you realize the huge population of mexicans that we have in american jails and prisons, the huge population of mexican gangbangers/drugdealers in america. yes we know we have many others in other race's who gangbang, but just by getting the illegals out and keeping them out, we would not only see a huge decline in the drug trade. But also a decline in rapes and murders. A huge increase in jobs, an enormous decrease in government services... Our government has had to spend millions in printing phamplets, books, signs, paperwork alone, besides all the billions on welfare, healthcare, education, housing, to fight mexican drug trade and so on. The trickle affect is huge! Point is, if you HAVE to give up the good ones to make sure you get rid of ALL the bad ones,, so be it. Then our government would have such an overstock of resources for Americans, that means helping the true Americans who are needy and elderly, and our government would have the resources to put away, imprison, catch, and fight American drug dealers, gangbangers, rapists and murderers. Thank-You!
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 12,670,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Bound View Post
That's pretty sad when an illegal can purchase a home.. when we have true hard working Americans that still can not. It's pretty sad when you have to ask for a different rep/sales person only because you can not understand the first one because of bad english. It's pretty sad when you have to turn a box of cereal to the correct side to find the english writting. It's pretty sad when you have to push 1 for english and so on. Everywhere.. and I mean EVERYWHERE you turn, hospitals, doctors, grocery stores, post office, telephone co, banks, library, newspapers, tv.. everywhere and everything has spanish on it. So what does that tell you all? Anyone that says that illegals only take jobs no one wants,, is full of it. They are able to obtain false id's and take all kinds of jobs getting paid just as well as everyone else. We live in a very small town, about 15,000 with about 5,000 being mexican. We have already been inadated with graffiti and gang activity. We never use to have what you would term.. a crime rate. Just the otherday 5 mexican boys beat up 1 boy so they could steal his bike and cell phone. They later caught the boys who were in thier late teens. They really hurt the American boy who was only 13! I can not help getting angry when I hear about stuff like that. The mexican boys parents are probably nice people, but that's not the big issue. it's thier kids! No control over thier children. Enough is ENOUGH. Just watch the REAL life tv programs cops, america's most wanted, msnbc's locked up. I really don't want to sound racist because I'm not. it's like the old saying.. you have to take the good with the bad. In this case.. WE SHOULDN'T have to. By completely shoring up our borders, by completely arresting and deporting every illegal... do you realize the huge huge decline we would see in crime! Do you realize the huge population of mexicans that we have in american jails and prisons, the huge population of mexican gangbangers/drugdealers in america. yes we know we have many others in other race's who gangbang, but just by getting the illegals out and keeping them out, we would not only see a huge decline in the drug trade. But also a decline in rapes and murders. A huge increase in jobs, an enormous decrease in government services... Our government has had to spend millions in printing phamplets, books, signs, paperwork alone, besides all the billions on welfare, healthcare, education, housing, to fight mexican drug trade and so on. The trickle affect is huge! Point is, if you HAVE to give up the good ones to make sure you get rid of ALL the bad ones,, so be it. Then our government would have such an overstock of resources for Americans, that means helping the true Americans who are needy and elderly, and our government would have the resources to put away, imprison, catch, and fight American drug dealers, gangbangers, rapists and murderers. Thank-You!
Arizonabound, I don't want to sound like an English teacher, but I could only get through three lines of your post and cannot read any further.

When you make one long paragraph like that my eyes get lost, and once my eyes get lost in an article over once, then I stop reading.

Also, you don't need to make entire page in bold print. That also makes it more difficult to read.

Please break your posts up into small paragraphs in normal print (not bold) and I will be able to read them.

Thanks,

Bill
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