U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-13-2007, 10:08 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,884,952 times
Reputation: 322

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Any one or single approach will fail. We need a comprehensive approach.

We need a fence, the military on the border, Arizona type laws that are very harsh, contact deportation, asset seizure, and lots of low cost tent city jails, and extremely harsh sentencing for anyone caught taking or smuggling illegals across the border.
A comprehensive approach, and for drug smuggling across the border too, as they say when you've got business to do get it done today. Over two decades of illegals and the illegal drugs destroying lives is way too long.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-13-2007, 10:23 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,884,952 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Churches are not God, he is omnipresent, and your body is a temple.

God is love, he is Wisdom too.

ok So returning to where we were.

The main problem behind illegal immigration is greed huh?

1 Some migrants arrive because of true necessity but others do so for greed
2 the government and coorporations tolerates this and promotes it because of greed
3 the mexican government is benefited by these influx of money so it's being greedy too
4 greedy criminals who smuggle people are part of this chain of command as well.

If something would be done to stop the phenomenon, something must be done, a very comprehensive strategy must be deployed and it would require all of our energy and concentration, what do we know of the phenomenon? BSB?

What could be it weak spot?
What are it's strenghts
Who are the soldiers of each side, and what is their strategy.

The more we know about how this phenomenon work, the more we could come with an effective way to counter it.

And like some posters mentioned maybe in a future the situation could be different but right now things are so out of control and some order would need to be put first.

it is for the best countries sake, because it's just generating too much negative energy, instead of having harmony and peace.

From the illegal immigration side we have the following soldiers.

Coorporations, with their network of contacts who protect illegals and their army of spanish speaking helpers who fill the forms for them.
Government with the programs enacted to cover and promote illegal immigration while appearing to do something else
Smugglers and corrupt border patrol, they make easier for people to break in
The Mexican government with it's network of consulates.
Catholic church with it's ever quest for power and influence and their network of churches


In the other side we have citizens

how could we counter the phenomenon?

some people already said with a fence, ok the fence could counter the immigrants who just break in, but smugglers would get more sophisticated.

some people mentioned reducing the benefits and having a stricter control, that would be effective, but there are very powerful interests that would be defending the way the things are now.

anyone else has an idea?

what could be done within Mexico?
what could be done within America?

it's a tough call huh? but it's better to have faith.

Let's see also the consequences this phenomenon is having.

Growing animosity between countries
Harder and more restrictive Legal immigration
A lot of people is feeling bad and frustrated
A lot of people is also falling totally prey of greed
Total lack of law and order.

And very important!!! This problem is distracting the attention so the presidential candidate that will be elected in your country might not be the wisest, but the one who is able to convince people, this could have nasty consequences and make things worse.

Ok let's continue with this if we already started, any more ideas?
Thoughtful post....illegal drugs across the border is a big part of this, too. Most Pres. candidates want open borders and this is about greed and power. Animosity between U.S. and Mexico not to worry, we need to do the right thing and keep our distance. We need to vote in a President who truly wants to protect borders and help citizens, then we'll have a President who cares instead of power mongers. Yes, with God all things are possible! Let's work together to get this done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-13-2007, 10:50 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,037,237 times
Reputation: 8130
Like it or not, the Immigration Reform Bill was our best chance to getting anything done. It was a compromise and without a compromise nothing will get done.

I feel the Democrats will work towards helping to solve the problem of the illegals already here ( some sort of amnesty) but never commit the money to secure the borders.
I feel the Republicans are willing to spend money to secure the borders ,but will do nothing about the estimated 12,000,000 + illegals already here.
I did hear the failed Immigration Bill explained on radio by a supporter and at the same time being opposed by an opponent.
I believe the problem is going to get worse, and we should have passed the Immigration Reform Bill
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2007, 06:19 AM
 
1,252 posts, read 737,441 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Like it or not, the Immigration Reform Bill was our best chance to getting anything done. It was a compromise and without a compromise nothing will get done.

I feel the Democrats will work towards helping to solve the problem of the illegals already here ( some sort of amnesty) but never commit the money to secure the borders.
I feel the Republicans are willing to spend money to secure the borders ,but will do nothing about the estimated 12,000,000 + illegals already here.
I did hear the failed Immigration Bill explained on radio by a supporter and at the same time being opposed by an opponent.
I believe the problem is going to get worse, and we should have passed the Immigration Reform Bill
Passing the bill would have been a good move, like any other legislation, any problems that weren't surmountable could be addressed by another session of Congress. As it is, we have Republicans blocking anything and everything because it doesn't play to their base for them to compromise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2007, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,777,991 times
Reputation: 2100
It wasnt a compromise it was a bow down. we already have laws, just get a back bone and enforce them!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2007, 09:16 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,197,587 times
Reputation: 22182
Here is my positive solution.

First recognize that the better type of illegals aren't even coming here to be Americans but only to work for a while, help their families through financial difficulties or to get ahead because they can't do so in Mexico. They don't learn English or assimilate because they don't want to become American -- but many aren't bad people per se. And these are the illegals who will work hard and take the seasonal low-paying jobs Americans may not want.

Those coming to give birth at taxpayer expense and get the food stamps, or who commit felony document fraud, or are here trafficking drugs are obviously the undesireables.

My solution would be to announce there will be no amnesty except that if one wishes to become American then he must return home and do things the right way this time. And from now on anyone caught here illegally will be deported and charged with felony crimes if they were using stolen or fraudulent documents and prohibited from ever living here legally.

End welfare and government handouts to illegals -- anchor babies should not be used as a way to get onto welfare programs.

And then -- if there truly is a need for more temporary employees, then set up a temporary guest worker program that allows for someone to come only to work for a few months and then return home to his family. This way families stay together, what money is earned will be more likely to be invested in the hometown which will help build things up. It would allow for an adjustment period where remittance money isn't completely cut off which could send Mexico reeling into turmoil.

Get immigration back to the concept that anyone coming here should be coming here because they desire to be law-abiding Americans and willing to adapt to our culture and learn our language.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2007, 09:42 AM
 
273 posts, read 181,362 times
Reputation: 101
Mount large circus canons all along the southern border. Illegal aliens would be returned (launched) back home in an expeditious and entertaining fashion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2007, 12:56 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,742,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Here is my positive solution.

First recognize that the better type of illegals aren't even coming here to be Americans but only to work for a while, help their families through financial difficulties or to get ahead because they can't do so in Mexico. They don't learn English or assimilate because they don't want to become American -- but many aren't bad people per se. And these are the illegals who will work hard and take the seasonal low-paying jobs Americans may not want.

Those coming to give birth at taxpayer expense and get the food stamps, or who commit felony document fraud, or are here trafficking drugs are obviously the undesireables.

My solution would be to announce there will be no amnesty except that if one wishes to become American then he must return home and do things the right way this time. And from now on anyone caught here illegally will be deported and charged with felony crimes if they were using stolen or fraudulent documents and prohibited from ever living here legally.

End welfare and government handouts to illegals -- anchor babies should not be used as a way to get onto welfare programs.

And then -- if there truly is a need for more temporary employees, then set up a temporary guest worker program that allows for someone to come only to work for a few months and then return home to his family. This way families stay together, what money is earned will be more likely to be invested in the hometown which will help build things up. It would allow for an adjustment period where remittance money isn't completely cut off which could send Mexico reeling into turmoil.

Get immigration back to the concept that anyone coming here should be coming here because they desire to be law-abiding Americans and willing to adapt to our culture and learn our language.
IMO, if you have already shown flagrant disregard for America's immigration laws then you should not be considered a candidate for a work visa. There is nothing special about the illegals who are here now. They are not doing any job that cannot be done just as well by someone from Malaysia, Poland, Nigeria or Sri Lanka. It is long past time to give impoverished people from other parts of the world a chance to come here, work for a set period of time and go home with a nice nest egg. Bring over male workers only so we will not have the anchor baby fiasco to deal with. The worker only comes to the US, the family stays in the home country. This will reduce some of the pressure on our schools and healthcare system. And there will be incentive to return home. A temporary work visa program is a viable solution for the jobs that cannot be filled by US citizens. Gradually replace our current crop of illegals with willing workers from other countries and the illegals will leave.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2007, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,574,234 times
Reputation: 4893
Amnesty was a DISMAL failure last time - we should not repeat it.

Make those here illegally, return to their country of origin - allow them to file an expedited application for lawful immigration - pay a fine - upon passing a background and health check, they may then be allowed to return to the United States.

Those that are here illegally and have extenuating circumstances such as severe health issues, may apply for a waiver to return to their nation of origin - but, they would still have to apply for visas and pass the same background tests.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2007, 05:25 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,197,587 times
Reputation: 22182
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
IMO, if you have already shown flagrant disregard for America's immigration laws then you should not be considered a candidate for a work visa.
That's the only compromise I can see making -- if the illegal committed no other crime, did not use a stolen social security number, never drove without a license and insurance, has no outstanding medical bills, or committed any other crime, then allow them to work very temporary jobs such as fruit harvest but with a return to Mexico after a period of 3 or 4 months.

No rewards for having babies on the taxpayer dimes, no rewards to those who committed identity theft and felony document fraud, no rewards for the welfare sloths. And no "understanding" of their DWIs, failure to obtain insurance and so on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top