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Old 12-12-2007, 01:22 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User 2 View Post
Thankfully, macmeal

There are enough people with the judgement to see beyond Moderator cut: personal attack. Those folks will donate to the ACLU and the ACLU will be fine without your support.

The ACLU receives requests from far more people than they have the funding to pursue they don't come close to taking all, or even most, of those cases.

They do extensive reviews to make sure that their efforts can be effective, and that they have a case they think they can win based on clear legal precedents.

Whether you think the case has merit is not their concern, and I would guess you are professionally incapable of judging or ascertaining the merits of any specific case, especially since you are neither trained in the law, nor do you seem to be especially respectful of what those laws ultimately mean if they are subverted.

Moderator cut: personal attack.
Several years ago, our local high school held graduation ceremonies. They were offered the free use (during the week) of a huge, air-conditioned hall owned by a local "mega-church"....it would have easily accomodated all the family and friends of our 2750 students.
Two parents objected. They contacted the ACLU, who "had a chat" with school officials, who decided NOT to take the church up on its offer after all.

The graduation cremony was held in an outdoor amphitheatre. about four miles away. The temperature that day was near 100. There was no shade, and most of the paper programs were being used as fans. Parking was about 3 blocks away.

Exactly how much money the ACLU spent on this, I don't know. But as we sat there, fanning ourselves and sweltering, I'm sure more than a few people were thinking (and QUITE a few were SAYING it out loud)---"Thanks, ACLU. It's hot, it's miserable, and it's uncomfortable, particulraly for the folks in wheelchairs. But at LEAST we don't have the indignity of having to be on CHURCH PROPERTY!"

I'm not a member of the church in question. I certainly could have used some of their hospitality, though, and could have done so without them "converting" me, I'm sure.

Another "brilliant" use of your funds, ACLU !
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:18 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,957,665 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
"Though I disagree with what you say, I will defend your right to say it."

This sums up the ACLU's involvement with NAMBLA (the KKK, etc.)
The NAMBLA case wasn't even *really* about NAMBLA's right to "say" anything. It was basically a vicarious publisher liability thing.


Put it this way:

If someone put up a website with instructions on how to make a homemade bomb, should THEY be held liable for the death of someone killed by a reader of their website who used those instructions to make a bomb?

ACLU said no. The case really did have ramifications far beyond NAMBLA. It was just a bad PR move on ACLU's part. Then again, it has garnered them LOTS of attention!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer
I don't either. When I have time I'll peruse their website.
The problem with progressive organizations such as the ACLU is that they may eventually be digging their own graves. If there's "too much" of a cultural shift, the delicate balance in this country that supports and props up progressive causes and liberties may be undermined by "newcomers" who won't necessarily share in their progressive point of view.... especially those that come here out of economic necessity, and not because they share the "spirit of America" and all that jazz.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:26 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post

The problem with progressive organizations such as the ACLU is that they may eventually be digging their own graves. If there's "too much" of a cultural shift, the delicate balance in this country that supports and props up progressive causes and liberties may be undermined by "newcomers" who won't necessarily share in their progressive point of view.... especially those that come here out of economic necessity, and not because they share the "spirit of America" and all that jazz.
This is an absolutely profound observation, and so true. I've often remarked on this myself. ( I LOVE irony, even when its effects are 'scary'). Isn't it ironic that many of our idealistic multicultural crowd, (most of whom, I don't believe, have any idea of what they are really talking about, and would be horrified if what they advocated were ever to actually come to pass), are busily and loudly lobbying for us to be "inclusive", and to welcome into our society, people who have NO aspirations at all to be "multicultural" in return? Our multiculturalists preach "acceptance" of those who don't accept anyone but themselves, and "tolerance" of those who are loudly and proudly intolerant. Our multiculturalists worry that our doubts may be interpreted by others as "racism", even by those whose racism is a cherished tradition of their own culture. And they worry about the negative image of us that may be percieved by totalitarian third-world cultures.

Maybe the BIGGEST negative image we're projecting is our own whining self-recrimination. Maybe the world respects those who respect themselves, and maybe we don't seem to be doing that lately. Maybe MOST of the world has no use for multiculturalism, and sees those who advocate it as weak, confused, vacillating, and unsure of themselves. Maybe if we sought to do the "right thing", and stopped worrying about having to please EVERYONE, we'd end up pleasing quite a few people anyway....at least more than we are pleasing now. And, once we've done our best, and gotten MOST people's admiration and respect, maybe we could just "write off" the others. No one, America included, is ever going to be loved by everyone. Maybe we should keep that in mind.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
The problem with progressive organizations such as the ACLU is that they may eventually be digging their own graves. If there's "too much" of a cultural shift, the delicate balance in this country that supports and props up progressive causes and liberties may be undermined by "newcomers" who won't necessarily share in their progressive point of view.... especially those that come here out of economic necessity, and not because they share the "spirit of America" and all that jazz.
Another example may be the NAACP: its original mission was for 'people of color' to have equal rights with White people.

That goal has been accomplished in the eyes of the law.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:34 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,156,404 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Another example may be the NAACP: its original mission was for 'people of color' to have equal rights with White people.

That goal has been accomplished in the eyes of the law.
Not in the eyes of the people

BAM!


http://youtube.com/watch?v=7_gFJJXLv28
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:13 PM
 
1,252 posts, read 725,461 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
This is an absolutely profound observation, and so true. I've often remarked on this myself. ( I LOVE irony, even when its effects are 'scary'). Isn't it ironic that many of our idealistic multicultural crowd, (most of whom, I don't believe, have any idea of what they are really talking about, and would be horrified if what they advocated were ever to actually come to pass), are busily and loudly lobbying for us to be "inclusive", and to welcome into our society, people who have NO aspirations at all to be "multicultural" in return? Our multiculturalists preach "acceptance" of those who don't accept anyone but themselves, and "tolerance" of those who are loudly and proudly intolerant. Our multiculturalists worry that our doubts may be interpreted by others as "racism", even by those whose racism is a cherished tradition of their own culture. And they worry about the negative image of us that may be percieved by totalitarian third-world cultures.

Maybe the BIGGEST negative image we're projecting is our own whining self-recrimination. Maybe the world respects those who respect themselves, and maybe we don't seem to be doing that lately. Maybe MOST of the world has no use for multiculturalism, and sees those who advocate it as weak, confused, vacillating, and unsure of themselves. Maybe if we sought to do the "right thing", and stopped worrying about having to please EVERYONE, we'd end up pleasing quite a few people anyway....at least more than we are pleasing now. And, once we've done our best, and gotten MOST people's admiration and respect, maybe we could just "write off" the others. No one, America included, is ever going to be loved by everyone. Maybe we should keep that in mind.
Profound?

True?


Do you often practice such imaginary oddness? What if, Maybe, Most ??

All that speculation is a profound truth?

Irony?

I'm not convinced that irony hasn't retreated from the vicinity, ...after seeing what you think might be ironic.

Profound? Even if you tell yourself you're profound?
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:22 PM
 
1,252 posts, read 725,461 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Another example may be the NAACP: its original mission was for 'people of color' to have equal rights with White people.

That goal has been accomplished in the eyes of the law.
Besides the fact that the NAACP's mission statement is inadequately defined by you, even your inadequate simplification is not relevant to what the ACLU's mission statement is, ....and your 'assessment' is absurd.

If the NAACP's goal, (as you state it), was accomplished, there wouldn't be whole divisions of the Justice Department still working to enforce those laws on people who still ignore and defy those laws which encompass 'the eyes of the law'.
.
..
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Old 12-14-2007, 09:35 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,957,665 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by User 2 View Post
Profound?

True?


Do you often practice such imaginary oddness? What if, Maybe, Most ??

All that speculation is a profound truth?

Irony?

I'm not convinced that irony hasn't retreated from the vicinity, ...after seeing what you think might be ironic.

Profound? Even if you tell yourself you're profound?

Wow. Couldn't have said it better if I were an unemployed English major that's spent the last 10 years accumulating three doctorate degrees and a certificate from a correspondence school for TV/VCR repair.
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Old 12-14-2007, 09:37 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Wow. Couldn't have said it better if I were an unemployed English major that's spent the last 10 years accumulating three doctorate degrees and a certificate from a correspondence school for TV/VCR repair.
Many are called.......but few are chosen.

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Old 12-14-2007, 11:38 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,957,665 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Many are called.......but few are chosen.


Can I have one with purple hair, like the one I had as a kid?
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