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Old 05-06-2014, 04:09 PM
 
31,479 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Fine, you think it's amnesty, but what's proposed in no way resembles amnesty. You sound like a broken record. Take the time to read the proposals. I don't think I'm the person using the "undocumented" terminology. Pure and simple, the people who either overstay their visa timeframe or those who cross our borders illegally ... are illegal aliens. I don't think I've ever described them differently. Anyhow, a round-up of over 10+ million people by the military of special police squads is clearly unworkable and many innocent people would likely be caught-up in the dragnet and the whole idea of that will scare the s*it out the country ... particularly honest to goodnes conservatives.
I read the proposals. It IS amnesty. Sounding like a broken record? Read your own posts for that.
I didn't say that YOU called them "undocumented". They were referred to in that way in the proposals you posted.

Again, why do you keep repeating this "round-up" of illegal aliens when this is the third time I have mentioned that isn't the preferred method of getting rid of illegal aliens? It isn't just conservatives that want these illegals out of our country.

 
Old 05-06-2014, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Longford---it was explained too you in another thread that this so-called "immigration reform"
is just a euphemism for amnesty. Why don't you get it? If anyone sounds "like a broken record", it is you.

Oh puleez! No one is talking about rounding up illegal aliens. However, if it was done, it will be money well spent.

Instead, what needs to be done is ---1) Make E-verify the law of the land and once it is the law of the land, run everybody in the workforce through it to weed out the 8 million no-match SSNs. 2) Do something about the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco. 3) Make sure that illegal aliens can not tap into any welfare programs. 4) Build a fence from Brownsville to San Diego.

If illegals can't find work or tap into any welfare programs, they will leave on their own accord. Would you stay anywhere if you couldn't find work or collect unemployment.

What is being proposed in this nightmare of a so-called "immigration reform" is indeed amnesty. After all, it forgives illegals for ID theft, tax evasion and they are allowed to have up to 2 DUIs. Also, all gang members need to do is to swear that they've given up gang activity---and if you think that someone will be checking to see if they do give it up, then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell to you.

And guess what? The majority of Americans do NOT want amnesty for illegals. Doubt it? Take a look at comments sections in any newspaper when this topic comes up.
They use the majority of americans want based on a few polls. The polls don't publish how the questions were asked.
For example: The CBU estimates that it will cost 2 trillion dollars to round up and deport all illegals. A path to citizenship will cost less than 1 billion. Do you?
a. Strongly agree that a path is best
b. some what agree
c. agree
d.somewhat disagree
e. strongly disagree

Well of course when worded in such a way many will elect to save 1.8 trillion dollars.
The estimate of rolling out E-verify or the projected cost is never mentioned. In short not all viable options are presented.
These polls also tend to omit that most illegals are breaking laws that would get a legal immigrant deported, a citizen jailed or at the very least heavily fined.
 
Old 05-06-2014, 04:15 PM
 
11,487 posts, read 5,507,878 times
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Exactly correct, tinman01! The questions are phrased in such a way that the pollsters get the answers they want.

As for polling---I recently read this --- Pollsters are having a hard time these days finding people to answer poll questions. Most people have caller ID on their land lines and won't pick up if they don't recognize the number or if they see it is from a polling company. Same thing with cell phones. So, it's getting harder and harder for them to find a wide sampling of people.

Plus, many people who answer these polls are low information voters. Either that, or they've yet to see the devastation caused by illegal aliens in their neighborhood. They are also unaware as to how illegals have displaced many Americans in the work force.

Then we have the lamestream media who refuses to cover the downside of illegal immigration and rarely has stories about Americans who have been victimized by illegal immigration.
 
Old 05-06-2014, 04:17 PM
 
31,479 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8351
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Exactly correct, tinman01! The questions are phrased in such a way that the pollsters get the answers they want.

As for polling---I recently read this --- Pollsters are having a hard time these days finding people to answer poll questions. Most people have caller ID on their land lines and won't pick up if they don't recognize the number or if they see it is from a polling company. Same thing with cell phones. So, it's getting harder and harder for them to find a wide sampling of people.

Plus, many people who answer these polls are low information voters. Either that, or they've yet to see the devastation caused by illegal aliens in their neighborhood. They are also unaware as to how illegals have displaced many Americans in the work force.

Then we have the lamestream media who refuses to cover the downside of illegal immigration and rarely has stories about Americans who have been victimized by illegal immigration.
I suspect that many that are polled either hire illegal aliens or have ethnic ties to them. Low information voters many times are bleeding heart liberals also who only think with emotion rather than reality or common sense.
 
Old 05-07-2014, 08:01 AM
 
741 posts, read 615,314 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
You don't need to round up 10 million illegals. You need mandatory E-verify with fines that make it to costly to even take the risk. We should also seize the assets of any illegal caught to help offset the cost of their deportation.
As for the highlighted remarks of yours, above: We're in total agreement.
 
Old 05-07-2014, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
As for the highlighted remarks of yours, above: We're in total agreement.
Which is why the immigration reform bill is nothing but a piece of pork legislation. It is overly expensive and does very little to address what is actually wrong with our immigration system. It is a bill designed to pander to a very specific group and to bribe members via pork into voting for it.
Mandatory E- Verify with substantial penalties including prison time will cause employers to re-think hiring illegals. Take away the money and illegals will be forced to self deport. I recall Obama chastising Romney for considering this course of action.
The reform bill both rewards criminal behavior as well as neglects what is actually wrong with the system. It in fact does the exact opposite of what needs to be done.
 
Old 05-07-2014, 12:58 PM
 
9,018 posts, read 7,948,202 times
Reputation: 14414
Everytime I try not to think about how much damage Obama & Biden are doing....
a thread like this comes along.
Seriously, ignorance truly is bliss
 
Old 05-07-2014, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by believe007 View Post
Everytime I try not to think about how much damage Obama & Biden are doing....
a thread like this comes along.
Seriously, ignorance truly is bliss
Obama is an idealist and Biden is simply an embarrassment.
 
Old 05-07-2014, 07:25 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,287,998 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
What do legal immigrants have to do in order to apply for a VISA?
They have to apply for said VISA in the nation of their origin.
What do legal immigrants have to do before entering the United States?
Wait to be granted a VISA.
What do legal immigrants have to show in order to be granted a VISA?
No criminal past including violations of US laws.
What happened to Obama's pledge that illegals would have to follow the same path as legals?
The immigration reform bill is nothing more than an attempt at pandering and an excuse to spend billions in pork. It is a very bad law that does very little to address the actual problems in our immigration system.
Rewarding criminal behavior is never acceptable. You don't need to round up 10 million illegals. You need mandatory E-verify with fines that make it to costly to even take the risk. We should also seize the assets of any illegal caught to help offset the cost of their deportation.


Common sense poster here as usual. We should never ever reward criminal. behavior period. Since when is breaking the law readily acceptable. But why is it? and who reaps the reward.

I agree with what you have said here about mandatory E-verify and yes fines. Your so right as always, this reform bill, is nothing more then a poor attempt at pandering and is a very poor law that does little to truly address the problems of immigration. Kind of like a slap on the wrist if even that.

Is their any Country in this world, that would kiss Americans Butt's if we pulled this crap in one of there Countries. Then made said demands. And even protested. How would Americans be perceived? think most of us already know that answer.

Seems America is so lax where immigration should be a priority. And yes I am pissed off at both stupid ignorant partys.
 
Old 05-09-2014, 10:22 AM
 
741 posts, read 615,314 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The reform bill both rewards criminal behavior as well as neglects what is actually wrong with the system. It in fact does the exact opposite of what needs to be done.
We've been reading two very different proposals. The one I reference has bipartisan support but still needs some 'rough edges' rounded.
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