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Old 05-16-2014, 02:57 PM
 
741 posts, read 615,314 times
Reputation: 575

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
well enlighten me.
Sorry .. I don't think that's going to be possible. What I read in your remarks, and of some other critics is that you're against everything proposed thus far other than E-Verify, without offering a realistic alternative. Unfortunately, E-Verify alone isn't going to resolve the matter. And without a mass detention/round-up of people (many of whom will be innocently taken into custody because of profiling) ... millions of people - illegals from the south - illegals from Canada - illegals from many countries - will still be in the USA living/working/studying.

 
Old 05-16-2014, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Sorry .. I don't think that's going to be possible. What I read in your remarks, and of some other critics is that you're against everything proposed thus far other than E-Verify, without offering a realistic alternative. Unfortunately, E-Verify alone isn't going to resolve the matter. And without a mass detention/round-up of people (many of whom will be innocently taken into custody because of profiling) ... millions of people - illegals from the south - illegals from Canada - illegals from many countries - will still be in the USA living/working/studying.
I disagree. I believe that E-verify is the beginning. Make life impossible and illegals will self deport. We have seen this happen in cities that crack down.
Im not against everything. Just wasteful spending that does nothing to address the actual problems with our system.
For example. The redundant paper work. Duplicate forms that are sent to different offices. This only serves to confuse.
Long waits just for your application to be reviewed.
Make it a felony to rent, house or employee illegals with harsh penalties and very few will hire them. What can they do, but to self deport. Make life impossible.
You believe that only a round up will cause illegals to be removed. I disagree with you.
 
Old 05-16-2014, 03:14 PM
 
11,485 posts, read 5,507,878 times
Reputation: 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Sorry .. I don't think that's going to be possible. What I read in your remarks, and of some other critics is that you're against everything proposed thus far other than E-Verify, without offering a realistic alternative. Unfortunately, E-Verify alone isn't going to resolve the matter. And without a mass detention/round-up of people (many of whom will be innocently taken into custody because of profiling) ... millions of people - illegals from the south - illegals from Canada - illegals from many countries - will still be in the USA living/working/studying.
Here's the thing---you've been presented a "realistic alternative" again and again. Yet you ignore it and repeat the same thing over and over.

So, once more ---

Make E-verify the law of the land NOW. Run everybody in the work force through it to weed out those 8 million no-match SSNs. The so-called "immigration reform" bill that you like calls for making E-verify the law of the land 5 years later should this nightmare of a bill pass. Meanwhile, since this bill says that all the DHS secretary needs to do is declare the border is secured and that goes unchallenged. So...with E-verify only going into effect 5 years down the road and the DHS secretary lying and saying the border is secured, when it isn't, what do you think will happen? I'll tell you --- illegals will be rushing the border and taking jobs and 5 years down the road, they'll be demanding amnesty.

If E-verify is made the law of the land NOW and all employers big and small are required to run their current work force through it and check new hires, illegals will be out of work. If they can't find work, they will leave on their own accord. Would you stay someplace if you couldn't find work?

Again---No one is advocating for mass round-ups for illegals, yet you keep bringing this up. Why is that? Besides, if it is done (which I seriously doubt will happen) and any "innocent" people get caught up in it, if they have proper documentation, they will be released. Every day somewhere "innocent" people get caught up in crime dragnets if they consort with criminals. Once they are proven to be innocent, they are released. Does it trouble you that this happens every day somewhere?

Back to illegals---Once everybody is run through E-verify, anyone found to have committed ID theft gets arrested and prosecuted.

Also, it's long past time for congress to close that glaring loophole that says it's okay if someone uses your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it. In fact, it's appalling that nothing has been done about this.

No "immigration reform" (a euphemism for amnesty) is needed. All that is needed (in addition to making E-verify the law of the land right NOW) is to enforce the laws on the books.

Why should illegals be given amnesty? Doing so is a slap in the face to legal immigrants who patiently awaited their turn to come here with some waiting years in refugee camps.

Longford---Do you think that legal immigrants are chumps for obeying our immigration laws? Do you think that they should have come here illegally and demanded amnesty?
 
Old 05-16-2014, 04:55 PM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Sorry .. I don't think that's going to be possible. What I read in your remarks, and of some other critics is that you're against everything proposed thus far other than E-Verify, without offering a realistic alternative. Unfortunately, E-Verify alone isn't going to resolve the matter. And without a mass detention/round-up of people (many of whom will be innocently taken into custody because of profiling) ... millions of people - illegals from the south - illegals from Canada - illegals from many countries - will still be in the USA living/working/studying.
Yes, e-verify won't do it alone. We also need to re-interpret birthright citizenship and deny any benefits to a family with an illegal alien in it. A realistic solution certainly isn't amnesty aka CIR.

Profiling? Come on, that isn't what would happen and it doesn't now for the most part. Only under lawful contact (infraction of the law) can someone be questioned about their status in this country and that is only if they can't provide a viable ID. Why wouldn't anyone here legally have one? So no, innocents shouldn't be taken into custody based on that.

You keep claiming that we are for mass roundup/deportations when we keep telling you we're not.
 
Old 05-16-2014, 04:58 PM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
In other words It doesn't. making E-Verify mandatory 5 years from now doesn't address any issue at all.
We need reform, but smart reform. We don't need to spend billions on additional border patrol or needless things. We need laws with teeth that enable violators to be punished.
Rewarding criminal behavior is never the right way to go. Legals had to apply from their nation of origin. Illegals should have to do the same.
Legals have to wait for a VISA before entering. Illegals should have to return home and do the same.
Do you deny the hefty pork bribes attached to the bill?
Can you comment on those points?
Another thing wrong with the proposed e-verify is that is will only be used on new hires. It's hands off to those illegals that are already employed. What's up with that?
 
Old 05-16-2014, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Another thing wrong with the proposed e-verify is that is will only be used on new hires. It's hands off to those illegals that are already employed. What's up with that?
Its called pandering.
 
Old 05-16-2014, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Its called pandering.
What class is it "pandering" to? The "deep cover" illegals (those with no suspicion from their employers, co-workers, and customers) won't fit the stereotypes of being illegal aliens. That generally means they aren't Hispanic.

But I guess your wife hasn't had accusations on the job of being an "illegal" like mine has...
 
Old 05-16-2014, 07:45 PM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
I wonder how many Hispanics haven't been accused of being here illegally? I imagine a good many of them. One incident does not make for broad stereotyping. And if the same person were accused over and over then maybe they'd have something to whine about but if not why make a mountain out of a molehill and beat it to death?
 
Old 05-16-2014, 07:48 PM
 
11,485 posts, read 5,507,878 times
Reputation: 9861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I wonder how many Hispanics haven't been accused of being here illegally? I imagine a good many of them. One incident does not make for broad stereotyping. And if the same person were accused over and over then maybe they'd have something to whine about but if not why make a mountain out of a molehill and beat it to death?

Spot on, Oldglory! No one in my Hispanic family has ever been accused of being here illegally.
 
Old 05-16-2014, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I wonder how many Hispanics haven't been accused of being here illegally? I imagine a good many of them. One incident does not make for broad stereotyping. And if the same person were accused over and over then maybe they'd have something to whine about but if not why make a mountain out of a molehill and beat it to death?
Two incidents, the first was a customer where my wife refused to accept his third-party check as payment, and he made a loud scene about her being an "illegal". The second was a customer calling in to the store after my wife wrote down her driver's license number on the personal check she was using to pay. She probably thought of stereotypes about "illegals" not having licenses, and was complaining to the store manager that my wife was trying to "steal" her identity.

The store didn't even reveal my wife's status, but just told her they would "take care of it". My wife was instructed to call a floor manager for every instance where a customer would cash a check after that (if the specific customer saw her again, they would think that the store wasn't even firing the "illegal" after the complaint). Perhaps you needed someone making a scene in your workplace about a lack of immigration (and employment) status, or your employer feeling that they need to treat you differently from other employees.

But I didn't expect you to have any compassion about it anyway...
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