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Old 05-20-2014, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,900,571 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
I agree.

If this so-called nightmare of an "immigration reform" bill passes, I think that politicians will be surprised at how many illegal aliens will come out of the woodwork. When the 1986 amnesty passed, they were surprised that about twice as many applied than was expected.
I have noticed that the fed likes to manipulate numbers when they are pushing something they know we the people won't like.
Examples include: The true cost of the ACA, The cost of the F-35, The cost of war, now how many illegals are here. How do they know and if they do know why haven't they rounded the illegals up? I don't know about you, but I make very few personal decisions based on a guess.
The E-Verify by itself would do much to reduce the illegal population. No sane person would hire an illegal if they faced prison time and massive fines.

 
Old 05-20-2014, 06:49 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,163,054 times
Reputation: 5399
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I have noticed that the fed likes to manipulate numbers when they are pushing something they know we the people won't like.
Examples include: The true cost of the ACA, The cost of the F-35, The cost of war, now how many illegals are here. How do they know and if they do know why haven't they rounded the illegals up? I don't know about you, but I make very few personal decisions based on a guess.
The E-Verify by itself would do much to reduce the illegal population. No sane person would hire an illegal if they faced prison time and massive fines.
That is another of the incorrect views. There is no way that eVerify does anything other than make the problem worse. You simply drive the workers underground in the gray market. So no taxes no FICA no unemployment. Very bad trend that we should resist. We do not want to establish a full grey market economy with tax avoidance. Construction in Southern Nevada for instance is probably majority off the books. The games go on at the bottom level of sub-contractor. You go after one and it simply disappears and a new one starts up the next day.

And EVerify does not get near that one. The sub is an expendable LLC that vanishes on scrutiny. Every body gets paid in cash. Exactly who works which days is never clear.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 07:03 PM
 
11,563 posts, read 5,534,663 times
Reputation: 9898
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
That is another of the incorrect views. There is no way that eVerify does anything other than make the problem worse. You simply drive the workers underground in the gray market. So no taxes no FICA no unemployment. Very bad trend that we should resist. We do not want to establish a full grey market economy with tax avoidance. Construction in Southern Nevada for instance is probably majority off the books. The games go on at the bottom level of sub-contractor. You go after one and it simply disappears and a new one starts up the next day.

And EVerify does not get near that one. The sub is an expendable LLC that vanishes on scrutiny. Every body gets paid in cash. Exactly who works which days is never clear.
They are already in the "gray market". They already either get paid under the table or use fake or stolen SSNs. I think that you would sing a different tune if your ID was stolen or you discovered scores of illegals using your SSN.

Why do you fear E-verify? If it is made the law of the land and employers are hit with huge fines for not using it, then it will work. Using it will prevent ID theft.

As for the "gray market" --- just audit these sleazy companies who pay off the books and the problem will correct itself. Right now, no one makes the effort to do so despite honest contractors going to authorities to report them.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 07:59 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,624 posts, read 31,208,083 times
Reputation: 26696
I'm sure it's far higher than 12 million but 60-70 million is not plausible to me. I'd believe 30 million.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 08:21 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,163,054 times
Reputation: 5399
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
They are already in the "gray market". They already either get paid under the table or use fake or stolen SSNs. I think that you would sing a different tune if your ID was stolen or you discovered scores of illegals using your SSN.

Why do you fear E-verify? If it is made the law of the land and employers are hit with huge fines for not using it, then it will work. Using it will prevent ID theft.

As for the "gray market" --- just audit these sleazy companies who pay off the books and the problem will correct itself. Right now, no one makes the effort to do so despite honest contractors going to authorities to report them.
You are simply unable to listen. There is no employer to hit with a huge fine. You go after a sub and the sub vanishes. Audit until you are blue in the face. Anyone you look at folds and a new sub starts the next morning.

The whole construction industry is partially gray...all of it. And it has no intention of stopping. But any corporation you go after simply dissolves.

I don't fear eVerify. Why would you even suggest such a brain dead concept? I think eVerify is just fine...but only for conventional corporations where virtually everyone is actually an employee. Independent contractors? Small subs? Forget about it.

The right is simply to enamor of a solution to the employment problem and is willing to cut our common throat to achieve this pyrhic victory. And mostly too dumb to understand what they are pushing.

It might be that a lot of this enforcement stuff would work if we had a workable illegal population. Say under a million with few from Mexico. Then it might be possible to run down suspected operators and indict them. But with the present size of problem you are simply encouraging a set of workers far too great to regulate to grow even more. Just somewhere past insanity.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 09:10 PM
 
11,563 posts, read 5,534,663 times
Reputation: 9898
You are simply unable to listen.

Currently, ID theft is prevalent. The Puerto Rican government had to take the unprecedented step of declaring all Puerto Rican issued birth certificates null and void. So many Puerto Ricans have been victims of ID theft. Now when a native-born Puerto Rican needs to have a copy of his/her birth certificate s/he has to jump through many hoops to get a secured, certified copy.

Right now the law says it's okay if someone uses your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it. You don't find out if this happened to you until the IRS comes after you for not filing taxes on a job you never worked.

As for those problems you whine about --- there always will be things like that occurring. So, what you are saying because it happens and always will to some extent, that we shouldn't have E-verify? That we should do nothing about ID theft?

As for encouraging more illegal workers if E-verify goes into effect --- that's total nonsense. Right now, we have 8 million no match SSNs in the work force. Running everybody through E-verify to weed them out will help unemployed American citizens and legal immigrants immensely.

As for the illegals---with E-verify the law of the land, it will be very difficult for them to find work in the underground economy---especially when those 8 million no-matches get weeded out.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 09:49 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,624 posts, read 31,208,083 times
Reputation: 26696
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
You are simply unable to listen.

Currently, ID theft is prevalent. The Puerto Rican government had to take the unprecedented step of declaring all Puerto Rican issued birth certificates null and void. So many Puerto Ricans have been victims of ID theft. Now when a native-born Puerto Rican needs to have a copy of his/her birth certificate s/he has to jump through many hoops to get a secured, certified copy.

Right now the law says it's okay if someone uses your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it. You don't find out if this happened to you until the IRS comes after you for not filing taxes on a job you never worked.

As for those problems you whine about --- there always will be things like that occurring. So, what you are saying because it happens and always will to some extent, that we shouldn't have E-verify? That we should do nothing about ID theft?

As for encouraging more illegal workers if E-verify goes into effect --- that's total nonsense. Right now, we have 8 million no match SSNs in the work force. Running everybody through E-verify to weed them out will help unemployed American citizens and legal immigrants immensely.

As for the illegals---with E-verify the law of the land, it will be very difficult for them to find work in the underground economy---especially when those 8 million no-matches get weeded out.
They did that? I guess the *** is up with illegal Hispanics pretending to be Puerto Rican, especially since most gringos can't tell the difference. (This one can, usually...unless they can do a REALLY GOOD PR accent.)
 
Old 05-20-2014, 10:08 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,308,580 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
That is another of the incorrect views. There is no way that eVerify does anything other than make the problem worse. You simply drive the workers underground in the gray market. So no taxes no FICA no unemployment. Very bad trend that we should resist. We do not want to establish a full grey market economy with tax avoidance. Construction in Southern Nevada for instance is probably majority off the books. The games go on at the bottom level of sub-contractor. You go after one and it simply disappears and a new one starts up the next day.

And EVerify does not get near that one. The sub is an expendable LLC that vanishes on scrutiny. Every body gets paid in cash. Exactly who works which days is never clear.
E verify, end birthright citizenship unless at least 1 parent is a US citizen or at least a legal alien, English ONLY for EBT, ANY run ins with the cops illegal aliens are arrested then deported. IMHO lots of illegals will start leaving the US ASAP.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 10:24 PM
 
11,563 posts, read 5,534,663 times
Reputation: 9898
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
They did that? I guess the *** is up with illegal Hispanics pretending to be Puerto Rican, especially since most gringos can't tell the difference. (This one can, usually...unless they can do a REALLY GOOD PR accent.)
Yes, they did do that. Some Puerto Ricans got arrested for crimes that they didn't commit---that's when some discovered that they had been victims of ID theft.

A few years back, an illegal in Minnesota ran a stop sign, hit a school bus and killed 4 kids. When she was arrested, she kept insisting that she was Puerto Rican but the cops doubted her. They did some digging and discovered that she had stolen the ID of a Puerto Rican born woman who was living in New Jersey. The ID theft victim was shocked to hear this. She was unaware that her ID had been stolen.

You are correct---I'm half Puerto Rican and can usually tell the difference between Mexicans, Central and South Americans and Puerto Ricans.

Customs, ICE and the Border Patrol know just what questions to ask illegals who are pretending to be Puerto Rican
 
Old 05-20-2014, 11:31 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,772,681 times
Reputation: 22168
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
A Dave Gibson (what are his journalistic credentials again?) article saying a fifth of the U.S. population are illegal aliens is pure comedy. Put on his "Examiner" channel 7 months after the start of President Obama's first term as President, it then suggests that our current administration is not responsible for the vast bulk of illegal aliens in the United States. Five years later, if you believe all of the stories here that the waves of illegal aliens are continuing, even encouraged by President Obama, the number now has to be closer to 80 to 90 million.

A little over a year ago, "malamute" (responding to a thread I started) said that illegal aliens were almost doubling in number every four years:
They are most definitely being encouraged by Obama -- and the number of children coming here without parents illegally is way up.
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