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Old 05-21-2014, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,396 posts, read 8,353,181 times
Reputation: 7679

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Name me another country (that is worth living in) that lets their borders be overrun as we do? Or as Ronald Reagan so aptly put it....."Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." Thank you...Congress...POTUS...and let us not forget the SCOTUS.


Last edited by Pretzelogik; 05-21-2014 at 06:12 PM..

 
Old 05-21-2014, 06:02 PM
 
11,515 posts, read 5,518,325 times
Reputation: 9882
And no they are not going to "self deport" which is a right fantasy. They simply go underground and suffers a little more. And they can out wait us...if all else fails.
---------------
^Really? Would you stay someplace if you couldn't find work or access any welfare benefits?

You contradict yourself. First you say "forcing working illegals off the payroll but not out of the country is the right way to do that" The you say "they are not going to self deport". Ummm....?

If they insist on going underground and suffer even more, I don't care. I have no sympathy for illegal aliens. No matter where they came from or how they got here, they all have one thing in common --- they have no business being here and need to leave.

BTW, you assume that anyone who doesn't want illegals in this country is right wing. Wrong! Plenty of independents and democrats want them gone, too.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 07:00 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Again you whistle in the dark. It don't work. Farms routinely use subcontractors. All this will mean is lots of small ones and no big ones. HS swipes one start another. You simply have to get in there and figure out who is running it and how to ever control it. Hotels can do a similar thing though as they get bigger it gets awkward.

Yes I keep bringing up the underground economy. Yes it has been around a long time and in some industries has a significant foothold. What you don't want is for it to get well enough established to become the norm as it is in some countries in Europe. And forcing working illegals off the payroll but not out of the country is just the right way to do that. And we don't force them out of the country because the task is simply too big by maybe 20 X or 30 X to be practically done.

Either get up the huge billions to deport them or make them legal. The existing case is the worst. And I see little if any support other than the limit right for even attempting the deportation.

And no they are not going to "self deport" which is a right fantasy. They simply go underground and suffers a little more. And they can out wait us...if all else fails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
If someone goes to their grave living that kind of life? I'm ok with that. I didn't put them there. It's not the US taxpayer's problem to take care of criminals from other Countries.
Like TaxPayer said. I'm def Ok with making illegal aliens suffer and suffer using the laws. 1 way that would help them hurt even more is stop birthright for their US born kids unless 1 parent IS legal. IMHO most illegals WILL leave when the pain is too much.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 07:32 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,149,749 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
And no they are not going to "self deport" which is a right fantasy. They simply go underground and suffers a little more. And they can out wait us...if all else fails.
---------------
^Really? Would you stay someplace if you couldn't find work or access any welfare benefits?
Of course they will find work. The situation may drive wages down a bit - for both illegals and citizens - but it does not prevent working. Any welfare comes thru children who are citizens.


Quote:
You contradict yourself. First you say "forcing working illegals off the payroll but not out of the country is the right way to do that" The you say "they are not going to self deport". Ummm....?
"that" is gain employment in the underground economy. and then they will not self deport. Got it?

Quote:
If they insist on going underground and suffer even more, I don't care. I have no sympathy for illegal aliens. No matter where they came from or how they got here, they all have one thing in common --- they have no business being here and need to leave.

BTW, you assume that anyone who doesn't want illegals in this country is right wing. Wrong! Plenty of independents and democrats want them gone, too.
But you seem to miss they take the prevailing wage down with them as they go underground. . So the legal and citizen worker get hit too. You are willing to put up with the underground illegal as it is some other citizen who loses the income?

There is certainly no reason why their children who are Americans need to leave. They would simply be collateral damage. and they will in the end cause the US a significant problem. When they return at 18 filled with bad emotions about how they were treated by the US. There are what? Some 2 million?

Yes there are some non right wing who are down on the illegals. I believe though they could hold their national meeting in a small McDonald's. And I was referring to that piece of pure fantasy know as "self deport". I am sure there must be at least one democrat, likely in Mississippi who believes it. So it is not entirely right wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
A more realistic number is the number of people here because of illegal immigration. That number may even be higher.
One might point out that definition covers us all unless your family had permission from the natives...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
Name me another country (that is worth living in) that lets their borders be overrun as we do? Or as Ronald Reagan so aptly put it....."Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." Thank you...Congress...POTUS...and let us not forget the SCOTUS.

Actually Reagan et al gets the biggest blame. They had the opportunity to reasonably easily contain and limit illegal immigration and failed to do so. To a very large degree the present mess is do to that failure after the Reagan Amnesty.

Last edited by Yac; 05-22-2014 at 04:31 AM.. Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
 
Old 05-21-2014, 07:59 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Of course they will find work. The situation may drive wages down a bit - for both illegals and citizens - but it does not prevent working. Any welfare comes thru children who are citizens.




"that" is gain employment in the underground economy. and then they will not self deport. Got it?



But you seem to miss they take the prevailing wage down with them as they go underground. . So the legal and citizen worker get hit too. You are willing to put up with the underground illegal as it is some other citizen who loses the income?

There is certainly no reason why their children who are Americans need to leave. They would simply be collateral damage. and they will in the end cause the US a significant problem. When they return at 18 filled with bad emotions about how they were treated by the US. There are what? Some 2 million?

Yes there are some non right wing who are down on the illegals. I believe though they could hold their national meeting in a small McDonald's. And I was referring to that piece of pure fantasy know as "self deport". I am sure there must be at least one democrat, likely in Mississippi who believes it. So it is not entirely right wing.
Def the "you owe me" attitude of the lawbreaker: it's EVERYONE ELSE'S fault. I don't care what those anchor kids have to say if stripped of their US citizenship and they have to go back home with their families. Sheesh!
 
Old 05-21-2014, 08:02 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
One might point out that definition covers us all unless your family had permission from the natives...
Uh; I'm a native born American from 2 parents here LEGALLY. Too; if talking about the American Indians, they had THEIR share of wars with each other and some tribes got their butts kicked and they lost everything. This is 2014, NOT 1492.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,013,920 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
One might point out that definition covers us all unless your family had permission from the natives...
It's more than that, the tired cliche about "ancestors coming legally" is patently false if they fled (instead of "fixing") a country where they had to ask the ruling government for permission to leave...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Def the "you owe me" attitude of the lawbreaker: it's EVERYONE ELSE'S fault. I don't care what those anchor kids have to say if stripped of their US citizenship and they have to go back home with their families. Sheesh!
When somebody talks of stripping Constitutionally-provided U.S. citizenship from another, they are losing the concept of of what it means to be an American themselves...
 
Old 05-22-2014, 07:14 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,293,735 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
It's more than that, the tired cliche about "ancestors coming legally" is patently false if they fled (instead of "fixing") a country where they had to ask the ruling government for permission to leave...



When somebody talks of stripping Constitutionally-provided U.S. citizenship from another, they are losing the concept of of what it means to be an American themselves...
IBM: it CAN happen since the Dominican Republic did just that with people of Haitian family even tho going back to 1929 is wrong IMHO. Too; more and more countries are stopping birthright for the kids of non citizens.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 09:19 AM
 
7,497 posts, read 9,282,777 times
Reputation: 7394
The most realistic number is that nobody knows how the hell many people are living here illegally and undetected and government entities and corporations want it that way or they would know.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 12:13 PM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,625,702 times
Reputation: 2449
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
This article is not recent, but gives a clear picture showing the 12 million # is flawed.
Even If this information is not flawed, it remains the US Gov and Obama is not aggressively enforcing law . Look at AZ 1070, a case where the Fed did not want the law enforces!
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