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Old 05-22-2014, 12:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
12 million may be too conservative, but 60-70 million is impossible.

Most of our illegal immigration comes from SOB and Asia.

Now, if you were to assume every Asian and Hispanic in the country were illegal, which they obviously aren't, there are only 60-70 million Asians and Hispanics in the United States, total, combined.

Not necessarily. Consider, virtually any, and every place you go, you hear non-English being spoken. Going to a shopping malls now is like taking a trip to the UN. Consider, it has been excessively easy for foreigners to come into this country for many years; it is when steps are taken to enforce already existing immigration laws, is when illegals get up in arms. After all, they believe they have the right to ignore our laws, and to come here to exploit everything they can out of the U.S. And if anyone complains they scream bloody murder. Illegal immigration is the primary reason U.S. healthcare is in shambles, with health insurance rates so high to cover those non-insured, and hospitals going bankrupt. Illegals are the reason why the education system is failing, since our schools are filled with children that don't speak English, not to mention taxes required to keep these special education, bilingual programs. Most illegals have no skills, and require subsidies once specified for U.S. citizens only. Our prison systems are filled with people that do not speak English, and even those who do, the majority of criminals over 50% incarcerated were either not born in this country, or were anchor babies born to those who came here illegally.

 
Old 05-22-2014, 12:46 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,145,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
IBM: it CAN happen since the Dominican Republic did just that with people of Haitian family even tho going back to 1929 is wrong IMHO. Too; more and more countries are stopping birthright for the kids of non citizens.
And the DR deal was obvious and transparent racism by the majority against a minority. Worse than the US treatment of Nisei citizens in WWII. It really shows that if the racism gets bad enough it will override Constitutional provisions to the contrary.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Limbo
6,458 posts, read 5,909,081 times
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So 20% of the country is illegal?
 
Old 05-22-2014, 02:21 PM
 
31,536 posts, read 14,580,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Of course they will find work. The situation may drive wages down a bit - for both illegals and citizens - but it does not prevent working. Any welfare comes thru children who are citizens.




"that" is gain employment in the underground economy. and then they will not self deport. Got it?



But you seem to miss they take the prevailing wage down with them as they go underground. . So the legal and citizen worker get hit too. You are willing to put up with the underground illegal as it is some other citizen who loses the income?

There is certainly no reason why their children who are Americans need to leave. They would simply be collateral damage. and they will in the end cause the US a significant problem. When they return at 18 filled with bad emotions about how they were treated by the US. There are what? Some 2 million?

Yes there are some non right wing who are down on the illegals. I believe though they could hold their national meeting in a small McDonald's. And I was referring to that piece of pure fantasy know as "self deport". I am sure there must be at least one democrat, likely in Mississippi who believes it. So it is not entirely right wing.



One might point out that definition covers us all unless your family had permission from the natives...



Actually Reagan et al gets the biggest blame. They had the opportunity to reasonably easily contain and limit illegal immigration and failed to do so. To a very large degree the present mess is do to that failure after the Reagan Amnesty.
As another poster already told you there isn't enough employers that would hire them underground nor are there enough underground jobs for them.

As for their U.S. born kids we cannot deport them so I don't get what you are saying about that. Sure, the parents should take those minor kids with them when they are deported though. Why would they feel they were mistreated if and when they decided to return here? Are you saying that because we deported their parents they will hold a grudge against the country they were born in for enforcing our immigration laws? My, they will make great citizens, won't they?

Americans have already had their wages reduced due to illegal immigration. So if they all worked underground what difference would that make?

It's nonsense that there are only a handful of the left/Democrats that don't want illegals here. Perhaps there are more on the right that do but let's not turn this into a party issue when it is a law issue. Where's the fantasy in self-deporting? As someone else asked you why would they stay here with no jobs and no, there won't be a larger underground workforce than we have now.

Permission from the natives? Am I reading you correctly that you are making this about the past and some first (but not native) peoples who migrated here?

No, these years and years of uncontrolled illegal immigration is not Reagan's fault. The only thing he is guilty of was signing that first amnesty while being promised by a Democrat controlled congress that the borders would be secured. Since that promise wasn't kept Reagan regretted signing that amnesty. You're going to blame Reagan for the failures of several administrations since then of both Republicans and Democrats to get control of this problem? I don't think so!
 
Old 05-22-2014, 03:27 PM
 
10,026 posts, read 8,860,258 times
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I don't know what the number is but the reality is we need to stop it or it will get worse. We need to start penalizing companies that hire them and we need to stop catering to them by things such as welfare. I guarantee if they realized they wouldn't be able to work or unable to receive welfare would mean many would return to their home country.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 03:53 PM
 
741 posts, read 615,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Americans have already had their wages reduced due to illegal immigration.
Really? Is that the motivation for your anger so often expressed on the topic of illegals? They've caused your wages to be reduced? I could understand you better, if that were the case. But, actually, I think you're making things up again. I'm willing to be educated on the topic, though ... if you can provide a link to a credible source.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 03:59 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,802 posts, read 30,052,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Really? Is that the motivation for your anger so often expressed on the topic of illegals? They've caused your wages to be reduced? I could understand you better, if that were the case. But, actually, I think you're making things up again. I'm willing to be educated on the topic, though ... if you can provide a link to a credible source.
Here is an article of what is feared for reform. What it doesn't hit on are all of the legal workers in the industry that aren't union. Those are the people that are getting hit hardest. If an illegal can do your job but for far less you have no choice but to accept lower wages or find something else to do.

Immigration Reform 2013: How It Could Cripple the Construction Industry - PolicyMic
 
Old 05-22-2014, 04:30 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,145,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Here is an article of what is feared for reform. What it doesn't hit on are all of the legal workers in the industry that aren't union. Those are the people that are getting hit hardest. If an illegal can do your job but for far less you have no choice but to accept lower wages or find something else to do.

Immigration Reform 2013: How It Could Cripple the Construction Industry - PolicyMic
In the Southwest in places like Las Vegas the entire residential construction industry trade is now Hispanic. The more senior are virtually all citizens or legal. But the workers are highly mixed and freely interchanged. Nobody but the job boss on site knows who is or who is not illegal and he may not know. The contractors tend to be Caucasians primarily...though virtually all speak fluent Spanish. And even some of the rather large specialty operations like heavy concrete is also virtually completely Hispanic at the first level supervisor and below.

The strip is union and has little Hispanic participation though that is changing at the lower levels.

These folk don't work for minimum wage. They don't get union scale either but someplace in between.

And they can remain about as illegal alien as they choose to.

The local cleaning services are similar as are the landscapers and virtually all the services in the Hispanic neighborhoods.

The fact is that we have a huge Hispanic economy that is completely self sustaining and will not give up the illegals to anything short of all out war by the government. And even then it is not clear the government would prevail.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,435 posts, read 3,857,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
This article is not recent, but gives a clear picture showing the 12 million # is flawed.
Kinda obvious really. They are here illegally and they are hiding. Those that are found are supposed to be deported. So it's insanely obvious that any estimate could be way off the mark.

We honestly have no clue how many there are. Could be 3 million or 100 million. Nobody actually knows for certain. Of course, the bigger true number, the more impossible it becomes to find and deport all illegals. So if the article is right, it actually makes a stronger case for some kind of pathway to citizenship. It also debunks the theory that a massive influx of immigrants will destroy America. If there are 70 million illegals here and we have not been destroyed by it, then that should tell you how idiotic quotas and numerical limits on immigration really are.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 05:14 PM
 
31,536 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Really? Is that the motivation for your anger so often expressed on the topic of illegals? They've caused your wages to be reduced? I could understand you better, if that were the case. But, actually, I think you're making things up again. I'm willing to be educated on the topic, though ... if you can provide a link to a credible source.
My motivation is about respect for our immigration laws and the negative impact that illegal immigration has on our own citizens. Call it anger if you wish but it is justified. My wages? Um no, I am retired but I feel for my fellow Americans that have had their jobs stolen or their wages reduced by the presence of millions of illegal aliens.

You want me to provide a link to the obvious? Do you also need proof that water is wet? Why do you think that the greedy employers hire illegal aliens if not to increase their profits by paying them less? In turn, an American can't compete when he used to get for example $20.00 an hour on a construction job but an illegal works for half or even less. What about their social costs that these greedy employers pass on to "we" the regular taxpayer? None of this is made up.
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