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Old 05-23-2014, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,020,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Possibly...though I honestly have no idea. I'm sure it's far higher than the 12 million that the government constantly refers to. I live in an area with a very large illegal population (Dallas-Fort Worth) and they're everywhere here.
"Oldglory" tells me he can't tell illegal aliens apart from legal immigrants, but you say that you can...

Presumably you had at least a little coursework in statistics for your degree, yet drop over to the same non-scientific methodology as others for saying "I've observed my area [but not all other locations], and that should be the case everywhere else."...

 
Old 05-23-2014, 10:07 AM
 
31,899 posts, read 14,685,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
"Oldglory" tells me he can't tell illegal aliens apart from legal immigrants, but you say that you can...

Presumably you had at least a little coursework in statistics for your degree, yet drop over to the same non-scientific methodology as others for saying "I've observed my area [but not all other locations], and that should be the case everywhere else."...
But the fact remains that even though you can't detect if one is here illegally just by looks that statistically there are a large number of illegal aliens in Texas and many other parts of the U.S. and that is the point.
 
Old 05-23-2014, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,020,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
But the fact remains that even though you can't detect if one is here illegally just by looks that statistically there are a large number of illegal aliens in Texas and many other parts of the U.S. and that is the point.
Who does those statistics? Often the statement is "I don't believe the government numbers, it has to be double, triple, or quadruple what they say.". It has no sense to stand up scientifically.
 
Old 05-23-2014, 10:37 AM
 
31,899 posts, read 14,685,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Who does those statistics? Often the statement is "I don't believe the government numbers, it has to be double, triple, or quadruple what they say.". It has no sense to stand up scientifically.
What does who does those statistics have to do with the "fact" that there are millions of illegal aliens in our country? Are you denying it? Are you going to deny also that there are millions of illegal aliens in the state of Texas? Surely you jest.
 
Old 05-23-2014, 03:08 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,627 posts, read 31,274,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
"Oldglory" tells me he can't tell illegal aliens apart from legal immigrants, but you say that you can...

Presumably you had at least a little coursework in statistics for your degree, yet drop over to the same non-scientific methodology as others for saying "I've observed my area [but not all other locations], and that should be the case everywhere else."...
Here's your words. You left them IN MY MOUTH. That's kind of rude.

I was born and raised in Texas. Unlike most gringos, I can actually carry on a conversation in Spanish (and I'm fluent in several others). Over the years, you learn what people from different countries sound like in Spanish. You can make a lot of basic assumptions about someone based on the way they speak in any language, not just English.

So, assume for a moment that you can understand everything that Spanish-speaking illegals are saying. Yes, I know, not all illegals are from Spanish-speaking countries. We all know that. However, I don't speak Mandarin Chinese or any Indian languages...or Arabic or Pashto or Vietnamese or Tagolog or any of the other various languages illegal immigrants speak. So let's use Spanish-speaking illegals as a specific example.

Now that the veil has been lifted and you can understand most or all of what they're saying to each other, you pick up on things. They'll openly say they're illegal, or "lack documentation." Illegals tend to be less educated, and you hear it in the way they speak Spanish. The accents are different. The vocabulary is different. Their slang is different. Sometimes, they don't even speak Spanish all that well...they speak an indigeneous language. No joke. Some people see a Hispanic-looking person speaking a language that isn't English and they automatically assume that they're speaking Spanish. Er, no. Often it's Huasteca Nahuatl, though not always. I don't speak that language so I have no idea what they're saying, but I hear it often enough to know what it sounds like. These people are usually from Hidalgo. There are a variety of Mayan languages spoken in Guatemala, and though most Guatemalans speak Spanish as a first or second language, not all do. Some of them do make their way up here. A Honduran might be speaking Garifuna, though that's rare around here. I don't know what Garifuna sounds like.

Also, a lot of uneducated ones may speak Spanish as their first language but they can't read it. If someone speaks only Spanish but can't read it, they're almost always illegal. If someone speaks Spanish with a distinct accent (basically an accent I've only heard from Hispanics raised in the United States) and also speaks English but can't read Spanish, they're almost always from here. Maybe not born here, but at least raised here. I've known a lot of Hispanics born and raised here who speak Spanish as their first language and speak it at home with family and friends, but can't read a word of it. This is pretty common.

So...knowing what they're saying is very helpful. Being able to 'eavesdrop' on their conversations, basically because they assume you have no idea what they're saying, is revealing. You learn a lot. You pick up speech patterns, lexical differences, differences in pronunciation, etc. Just like you can learn a lot from these when listening to an English speaker...so it goes in Spanish as well.

Also, when you spend your childhood immersed in an environment where several languages are being spoken at once and live in an area with a large Hispanic population, you develop a keen ear for these things and a more innate familiarity with Hispanics as a whole. I'm not some white-bread small-towner whose only Spanish consists of the Taco Bell menu.

So...yeah...if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Sorry.
 
Old 05-23-2014, 07:53 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,334,860 times
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I agree with BigDGeek. Tho I don't speak Spanish: the "Mexican" kind usually sounds really rough and low class. Better Spanish ain't hard to listen to.
 
Old 05-23-2014, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Mexifornia
915 posts, read 739,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
I agree with BigDGeek. Tho I don't speak Spanish: the "Mexican" kind usually sounds really rough and low class. Better Spanish ain't hard to listen to.
The reason for that is most of the illegals come from communities in the boonies with little to no education.
 
Old 05-24-2014, 11:11 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,840,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
But the fact remains that even though you can't detect if one is here illegally just by looks that statistically there are a large number of illegal aliens in Texas and many other parts of the U.S. and that is the point.
There are cities where the Spanish speaking population is quadrupuling every few years -- and it's very doubtful that it's due to American-hispanics deciding to gulp fertility pills.

Many illegals give birth shortly after arriving but those children have US birth certificates. A US birth guarantees them welfare hantouts which makes it all possible to come here with no education, no job skills, no ability to speak or learn the language and live a very comfortable life.

Americans without high school diplomas and job skills have a difficult time making ends meet --- how much worse it would be for foreigners unable to speak the language -- but Medicaid, food stamps, free government provided housing make it easy.
 
Old 05-24-2014, 11:18 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,840,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemdiver View Post
I'm like you I believe it's 30 million but I think it's 60-70 million if the illegal alien offspring are included.
Yes -- their high birth rates means that for every other illegal, there are going to be 3-6 or more US born offspring from them within a short time.

Several of my illegal neigbors have 4 kids -- pretty much all born within 6 years. One couple was getting very nice EITC checks besides the food stamps, free school meals, Medicaid and housing voucher. They've moved on to Colorado so I don't know if they've got more kids by now -- probably they do.

Another woman hasn't worked in many years -- she has 4 US born food stamp children that make it easy for her to live the retired life -- she as one child in Mexico who she hasn't seen in 15 years, since he was an infant who she will bring here as soon as she gets her amnesty along with her mother who she left him with.

Even if this woman wanted to work, she could never support her large brood with her lack of education, job skills and inability to speak English. She once worked for a short time as a housekeeper but once the babies started arriving, that was no longer necessary - and it wouldn't pay nearly as much as welfare handouts do.
 
Old 05-24-2014, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,585 posts, read 3,893,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Regardless of the true numbers here illegally they are destroying our economy by taking American jobs and depleting our tax coffers to subsidize their social costs. Our natural resources are being depleted by the unaccounted for and unplanned for uncontrolled population growth by them. There are many fiscal deficits going on in the state and federal levels due to illegal immigration. So yes, they are destroying our country. Quotas aren't idiotic. They are in place for very good reasons. There are 2 billion impoverished foreigners who would come here if we had no quotas on legal immigration. Think man.
1.) they are destroying our economy
Destroying our economy? The damage done has everything to do with the **** poor slave wages and complete lack of workplace safety regulation enforcement that illegals have to put up with. If they had the same rights and protections in place, this would be a complete non-issue -- at least no more so than scenarios we've already seen where a primarily white neighborhood becomes a predominantly black neighborhood, such as Gary, Indiana.

2.) taking American jobs
Because they eat food, they increase the demand for food by being here. Because they sleep, they increase the demand for housing by being here. Because they wear clothing, they increase the demand for clothing. Because they live here, they increase the demand for everything that your average human being wants or needs. So while they take jobs, they also create them at the same time. If they had better pay, they'd create even more demand in all areas of consumership.

3.) depleting our tax coffers to subsidize their social costs
And if they were legal residents, this too would not be an issue. If they were legal residents, they would be paying into the tax system. But like I already said, those illegals that are here just to leech should be sent packing the very moment that they apply for assistance. In that case, those illegals found themselves for you by applying for government assistance. I got no problem sending them packing.

4.) Our natural resources are being depleted by the unaccounted for and unplanned for uncontrolled population growth by them.
There are no controls in place for white population growth. There are no controls in place for black population growth. There are no controls for any of those sorts of things because it is fundamentally unconscionable to create such regulations. There are parts of this nation that are overcrowded, but for the most part America has an incredible amount of space it has yet to grow into. As far as natural resources, can you please be specific?? The depletion of natural resources continues apace with or without illegals. Is there some specific resource that is being destroyed entirely illegals or even mostly by illegals? What's this nonsense you're spouting?

Do we open the floodgates and let anyone in who wants in? No we don't. We set standards for immigration. You have to demonstrate that you are a productive member of society. You have to go through all the steps that already exist. Do you abolish quotas entirely? I'm not sure there, but clearly the numbers we have locked in place right now are incapable of successfully channeling the current deluge of immigrants through legal channels of entry. We need to open things up in a big way And because it's the right thing to do, fast-track the folks who are waiting in line coming here legally. Preference must go to those who did not break the law. But after you've done that, you still have to come up with a solution to the illegal immigrant problem.

We have two realistic choices:
A.) Keep doing what we're doing, which primarily consists of pretending they aren't there and hoping they just go away.
B.) Come up with a the best pathway to legal residency possible.
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